View Poll Results: Is this Child cruelty or just good discipline?

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  • This is child cruelty.

    22 36.07%
  • This was fine and acceptable.

    39 63.93%
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Thread: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment [W:59]

  1. #221
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    We may both be speculating but mine is borne out by the actual results.
    "Results" in the cases of child cruelty are not what matters. The potential is. It was stopped, by law enforcement, before we could determine what the actual results might have been. A person could chain their kid to a wall or lock them in a cage and it cause no actual physical harm to them, especially if that action/punishment was discovered in a relatively short amount of time (within a day or a few hours even), yet that would still be seen as either child abuse or child cruelty.
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  2. #222
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    "Results" in the cases of child cruelty are not what matters. The potential is. It was stopped, by law enforcement, before we could determine what the actual results might have been. A person could chain their kid to a wall or lock them in a cage and it cause no actual physical harm to them, especially if that action/punishment was discovered in a relatively short amount of time (within a day or a few hours even), yet that would still be seen as either child abuse or child cruelty.
    Did you never carry your books in school without a backpack? Yea it sucks, but not dangerous. I googled the basic route the kid took and its not a hard walk at all. There isn't any danger here for the kid. Should we arrest every parent who lets their kid ride a bike without a helmet? Or shoots hoops in the street of a cul-de-sac? These could be considered dangerous situations.

    If you ask me, the most dangerous thing about this whole story is the fact that the boy got in a car with a complete stranger, just to get out of his punishment.
    Hail to the King baby!

  3. #223
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Have you ever BEEN to a football practice? High school kids including the heavy horses are out there running their ass off, doing drills, pushing sleds all in the heat of the day and manage to do just fine. This kid wasnt being worked over...he was being made to walk 3 miles carrying a rock. His dad was employing the exact same strategies they employ in sports programs and I am assuming you endured during your boot camp. He did it several times...with no adverse health impacts.
    High school kids? Hell my oldest played Pop Warner football when he was in 2nd grade and they were pushing the sleds in the middle of August at training camp, and they all survived with no issue. And at that age they're all smaller than the kid in this story.

    I also think a lot of people who are having hysterics about this kid's punishment must not have young ones who play hockey. You should see what they go through for training when they're 5. Mine all did - and they all survived (and thrived too).

  4. #224
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    Did you never carry your books in school without a backpack? Yea it sucks, but not dangerous. I googled the basic route the kid took and its not a hard walk at all. There isn't any danger here for the kid. Should we arrest every parent who lets their kid ride a bike without a helmet? Or shoots hoops in the street of a cul-de-sac? These could be considered dangerous situations.

    If you ask me, the most dangerous thing about this whole story is the fact that the boy got in a car with a complete stranger, just to get out of his punishment.
    Actually, a lot of states/municipalities have bike helmet laws, particularly for those under 18/16. Not exactly sure on the punishment for your child not wearing a helmet, but the laws still exist in many states/areas.

    Bicycle Helmet Laws

    You listed one of the dangers of this (although, that one is a pretty obscure danger in itself, especially to someone who actually is 16). But there are plenty of basic dangers no matter where he is walking, including heat exhaustion, getting hit by a car (it was a road, and that is always a potential danger, and carrying a rock with him would cause his reaction time to be lower), and any number of muscle injuries from carrying a 23lb object, in his hands, 3 miles.

    And no, I never carried all my books, by hand, around school, particularly not for over an hour at a time. In fact, ...

    "The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that a child’s backpack weigh no more than 10 to 20 percent of a child’s weight."

    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0...ype=blogs&_r=0

    And this is just a carry weight for a backpack, not carrying by hand. Also, shorter children should carry less weight. So that 23lb weight is about 16% of the kid's weight. Within range, but still over the 10% and again, not being carried on his back and he is shorter (significantly) than most "kids" at that weight. If he was close to his recommended weight, he would have been carrying closer to 27% of his body weight.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  5. #225
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They preselected people for SEAL training and they even had a pre-SEAL training that would get the average sailor up to the fitness level required to begin SEAL training.

    And yes, I remember boot camp. We worked our way up to being able to run in formation or even to get cycled (punished with physical exercise) as a division. And this was done with at least two RDCs present, plus we had to have a canteen with water always in it, and we took at least water breaks. The only time we carried anything when we were doing physical activity during bootcamp was during Battle Stations (when it was spread out across Great Lakes), and we had to pass off a seabag that had a bathing suit in it for everyone (20 sailors, wasn't that heavy) (generally women took it first half, til the pool, then the guys switched off carrying it after the pool, abandon ship drill). But Battle Stations was done at the end of boot camp, after we had been training for at least 7 weeks and even after our final PRT, which meant everyone who did it had to be in good shape to do it. And even during that late night "fun" we all had canteens on us. Hydration was always stressed during boot camp.

    Child cruelty is not assessed according to how the child/teen fared from what was done (or attempted) but the likelihood of injury/illness from the punishment.
    Thereare obvious questions as to whether or not a 16 year old walking 3 whole miles carrying 23 pounds is 'cruelty' or 'abusive'.

  6. #226
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment [W:59]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Child cruelty or just some good old fashioned discipline?? If you think the former, what 'punishment' do you approve of?


    Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment


    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    I was on the fence with this until I read the article:

    "This was done multiple times over a three-day period, sometimes as early as 3 o'clock in the morning," Police Sgt. Todd Garner told 11Alive on Tuesday.

    Garner said the boy, who is only 4'2" tall, was also punished in-between the 3-mile hikes.

    "In between that time, he was at home having to move rocks and stuff from one side of the back yard to the other and then being taken right back out to the same location and dropped off and made to walk back again," Sgt. Garner added.

    The boy's trek would begin on Kings Highway and end at the family's home in the Fairways subdivision.
    That was not a simple "teach him to work hard" lesson. That was something more. Something personal. Something mean. The sort of thing that causes problems in a youngster when he grows up. This was not a loving lesson doled out by a loving father to teach his son responsibility. Even though he didn't beat him up, it's a cruel act. To wake up a teen in the middle of the night & force him to tote heavy stones down the dark road and back, and keep doing it off and on for days? Cruelty.

  7. #227
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Then quite a few of my generation were abused as children. Dr Spock really did screw this nation over for generations to come.
    Yes, we were.

  8. #228
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I haven't yet seen any indication the child was physically harmed by this. In fact, it sounds like what we used to do daily for fun on our own as kids (we used to build the most amazing forts).
    It is a misconception that child cruelty must involve physical harm. Mental harm is cruelty, as well. Going without sleep to work in a stone yard in the middle of the night...sorry, but that's cruelty. That's not teaching a lesson.

    The boy is his son. Not his property. Not his slave laborer. Some parents, seems to me, seem to think they OWN their children. They do not.

  9. #229
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    In my county the police would be dropping the charges with in day, that is if they were that stupid enough to arrest the man in the first place. If it EVER got to trial, the jury would toss it so fast it would make the stupid prosecutors head spin. We have dumb prosecutors but I doubt they are this dumb. This all presumes the judge doesn't toss it themselves.

    Your right I do have an emotional attachment. This is a bull**** charge though and through. This family is now being tortured by CPS and the judicial system. That's cruel and unusual punishment, for a nonexistent crime.


    Another example of how local and State agencies have too much power..Even if this poor guy beats the charges, CPS will remain part of his life for a long time...

  10. #230
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I haven't yet seen any indication the child was physically harmed by this. In fact, it sounds like what we used to do daily for fun on our own as kids (we used to build the most amazing forts).


    Exactly, the father didn't beat the kid with the rock, just made him carry it....

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