View Poll Results: Is this Child cruelty or just good discipline?

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  • This is child cruelty.

    22 36.07%
  • This was fine and acceptable.

    39 63.93%
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Thread: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment [W:59]

  1. #141
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    If I may suggest, you take a landscaping stone and carry it around that course to get a better understanding of the issue. If you have a child why not have them carry one as well, if you don't have one of your own see if you can borrow a 4'2" child and have them carry a rock beside you (see if the child's parents are as cavalier about it as you are trying to pretend.)

    HUGE difference from playing sports, I played outside damn near from sunup to sundown as a child, worked outdoors damn near as long when a teenager- joining the Infantry kicked my ass for awhile and I was quite a bit taller than 4'2" and 18, not 16.
    I worked in the nursery at Home Depot...I carried and loaded more of those stones lthan you can count. And some of them are 60 lbs. And I was about 50 at the time. In between contracts.

    23 lbs? If he was going hiking for the day his daypack could easily weigh that.

    When we hiked the 16 miles to Half Dome & back my pack and water weighed more than that. Again...over 40 yrs old, with no time to get into better shape (just regular day to day shape, not that I'm out of shape but that was a heck of a day hike)
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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  2. #142
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    He was a normal healthy 16 yr old boy carrying 23 lbs. Please, it sounds like he was even setting his own pace.
    No, he wasn't. Normal 16 year olds, boys especially, are not 4 foot 2 inches tall (my shortest sister is 5'1", and she is small, the average height of a teenager is definitely over 5 feet tall). Plus, he was overweight by about 60 pounds. That adds another dangerous aspect to it. He was given a time limit of 2 hours or forced to start over (which he had to do obviously since the guy seen him again later). Plus, he was carrying extra weight, and he was doing other physical work outdoors before and/or after these trips. This was not a "Sunday stroll". It was easily dangerous for him, especially since, from the reports we have, he did not have adequate water (enough to last til he got home or almost home).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #143
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I worked in the nursery at Home Depot...I carried and loaded more of those stones lthan you can count. And some of them are 60 lbs. And I was about 50 at the time. In between contracts.

    23 lbs? If he was going hiking for the day his daypack could easily weigh that.

    When we hiked the 16 miles to Half Dome & back my pack and water weighed more than that. Again...over 40 yrs old, with no time to get into better shape (just regular day to day shape, not that I'm out of shape but that was a heck of a day hike)
    This kid wasn't even regular day to day shape. And if you were hiking 16 miles (sounds like uphill at least some?) then you were not in "average" shape. You would have been above average.

    Most places do not allow their employees to lift over 40 or 50 lbs solo due to 50 lbs being the OSHA recommendation for safe lifting ability of men (women they actually set at half that). Even the shipyard will not allow people to solo lift over 50 lbs. I could easily lift/carry 40 lb water containers for short distances (from where they were in the subs, off them to the truck/cart, then from the cart to the building) but that doesn't mean that anyone should be forced to carry even 23 lbs for over an hour walk, in the heat (~85 degrees), without at least enough water, if any. But especially not a teenager who was not in the best of shape to begin with. And this doesn't even cover the fact that at least some of those times he was alone, and had something happened, it could have been a while before his father or mother even realized that something had happened to him.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #144
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, he wasn't. Normal 16 year olds, boys especially, are not 4 foot 2 inches tall (my shortest sister is 5'1", and she is small, the average height of a teenager is definitely over 5 feet tall). Plus, he was overweight by about 60 pounds. That adds another dangerous aspect to it. He was given a time limit of 2 hours or forced to start over (which he had to do obviously since the guy seen him again later). Plus, he was carrying extra weight, and he was doing other physical work outdoors before and/or after these trips. This was not a "Sunday stroll". It was easily dangerous for him, especially since, from the reports we have, he did not have adequate water (enough to last til he got home or almost home).
    You must have access to more information than I have.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    You must have access to more information than I have.
    Like what? His height was given in at least one of those stories posted. It is quite easy to look up much of the other stuff. The delivery driver stated that he had no water (or anything to drink) on him either time he saw him. I looked up the weather for the area, and it told me that it was 75-87 degrees in the area over this past weekend. The time limit was in the story (at least one of them). Boys at age 16 are on average about 5'7" tall (my height). At 4'2" tall, he was the average height of an 8 or 9 year old. (In fact, the delivery guy stated that he thought he was a child, not a teenager.)

    The Average Weight & Height for a 16 Year Old | LIVESTRONG.COM
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  6. #146
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Like what? His height was given in at least one of those stories posted. It is quite easy to look up much of the other stuff. The delivery driver stated that he had no water (or anything to drink) on him either time he saw him. I looked up the weather for the area, and it told me that it was 75-87 degrees in the area over this past weekend. The time limit was in the story (at least one of them). Boys at age 16 are on average about 5'7" tall (my height). At 4'2" tall, he was the average height of an 8 or 9 year old. (In fact, the delivery guy stated that he thought he was a child, not a teenager.)

    The Average Weight & Height for a 16 Year Old | LIVESTRONG.COM
    You have no idea what kind of shape this kid is in. Its all speculation. I was/am a smaller guy, so I know what goes along with that. As a 16 year old kid, I am confident that i could done a 3 mile hike in 2 hours with no water. But the lack of water is still speculation. So the driver didn't see any the two times that he saw the kid. Maybe the father was making him drink water prior to the walk, you just dont know. And the article said the kid only made the hike 4 times in 3 days.
    Hail to the King baby!

  7. #147
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    The hikes were only part of it.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

  8. #148
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    I think whether this is abuse relies on a few things:

    A) Did he deprive the teenager of water?
    B) Did he hurl abusive words and other things in order to break down the child's mental outlook?
    C) Was the child physically capable of handling the walk, the stones, etc.

    If it was within the teen's physical abilities and he wasn't in danger - it's not abuse.

    If it was outside of the teen's physical abilities and he was put in danger - it is abuse.

    Because at 15/16 I used to help my dad mow the lawn and lay sod - landscaping - and other stuff like that whether I wanted to or not. Abuse? Hardly. It was work that needed to be done and I was quite capable of doing it. He didn't deprive me of necessities or treat me poorly during the process - but he did make me finish what we started.
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  9. #149
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    You have no idea what kind of shape this kid is in. Its all speculation. I was/am a smaller guy, so I know what goes along with that. As a 16 year old kid, I am confident that i could done a 3 mile hike in 2 hours with no water. But the lack of water is still speculation. So the driver didn't see any the two times that he saw the kid. Maybe the father was making him drink water prior to the walk, you just dont know. And the article said the kid only made the hike 4 times in 3 days.
    And two of those times were during the day the driver seen the kid (since he saw him twice). One of those was at 2 am (the cop cam proves that one). We don't know when the other was.

    You are not a representative of every 16 year old kid, and I doubt you were the size of an 8 or 9 year old at 16 (at least in height). Plus, were you overweight by about 60lbs? One of the stories gives that the kid was about 145 lbs (that is in the 95% for height/weight recommendations for a 16 year old and "overweight") (looked that up too). Not having enough water to last at least 2 hours of heavy exercise (which is what that was even if his pace was a constant walk), means that had something happened to him (hurt himself, had to stop from heat exhaustion, etc.), he would not have had water for him to last on after doing physical activity. That is not proper planning, particularly for the situation. If you are walking for 3 miles carrying something that weighs 20+ lbs, then you should have water on you.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #150
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    Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

    `
    I hope the guy does some prison time. He's a scumball.

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