View Poll Results: Should we force kids to finish 12th grade?

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  • Yes, we should force kids to finish 12th Grade

    14 29.79%
  • No, we should NOT force kids to finish 12th Grade

    23 48.94%
  • Other, please explain.

    10 21.28%
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Thread: Dropping out of school

  1. #51
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It depends on what you mean by "force". I think we ought to provide negative consequences for not graduating from high school, they ought to suffer if they decide not to get an education because an education is the best way to make them financially self-sufficient that we have. If you want to drop out, fine, but I don't think you should be able to get any social services if you do and parents of children that drop out should not get any welfare money for them. As far as I'm concerned, school is their job. Quitting their job ought to mean they stop getting a "paycheck". Don't like that? Don't drop out.
    Probably won't be a very effective deterrent since food stamps for example means ramon noodles every day and what happens if it did make a huge diff? It just sounds like 1830s england or 2000s detroit or something: Drop outs starve > commit crime to survive > end up in jail at even greater cost to taxpayers.

  2. #52
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    while i disagree with your hyperbolic example, it beats being subjected to indentured servitude at some unskilled job and not taking one's education as far as one can. i just see very little benefit in allowing anyone to drop out of high school. sure, offer a vocational tract instead, but at least require graduation.
    Pretty much my whole extended family was a high school grad and employed their whole lives at "indentured servitude at unskilled job," when they weren't laid off and on unemployment. Some at least attempted college. I'm well aware that a diploma is good for minimum wage factory work via temp agency in most cases.

  3. #53
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyMoonlight View Post
    Currently in New South Wales, a student must stay at school until they are 17 or prove they have a job. It is a pointless exercise to make students stay at school if they don't want to be there. I have classes with students who just disrupt the learning of their peers because they are too lazy to do any work, have no interest in doing in work, haven't done any work for years and have been shoved through the system.

    I also am in favour of a three level high school as they do in Europe; one for those students who will go to uni, one for those students who will go into a trade or who are not bright enough for uni (not that intelligence is a pre requisite these days) and one for those who have no interest in learning and should be trained in such life style skills such as filling out forms, managing on a low income etc.

    When we get back to teaching instead of baby sitting as we are most of the time now, things will change for the better.
    Yeah you just described half my graduating class. I still shudder when thinking of Algebra 2, most days spent watching movies or playing bingo cause the other kids couldn't stand math but were forced to be there.

    I've never heard of this Europe tier system, but it sounds worth trying at least.

  4. #54
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Pretty much my whole extended family was a high school grad and employed their whole lives at "indentured servitude at unskilled job," when they weren't laid off and on unemployment. Some at least attempted college. I'm well aware that a diploma is good for minimum wage factory work via temp agency in most cases.
    once again, i see no benefit in allowing students to quit before high school graduation.

  5. #55
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    once again, i see no benefit in allowing students to quit before high school graduation.
    Others already explained it, you can't force kids who don't want to learn to do so. They become a distraction to everyone else and those 2 years you want to force on them are, i believe in most cases, taxpayer $ better spent elsewhere.

  6. #56
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Others already explained it, you can't force kids who don't want to learn to do so. They become a distraction to everyone else and those 2 years you want to force on them are, i believe in most cases, taxpayer $ better spent elsewhere.
    considering that we as a society are going to have to support or subsidize those who drop out, yes, we can demand a minimal level of education or vocational training.

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    Re: Dropping out of school

    your going to employ the Chinaman anyway, so what differece does the US Citizens education matter?
    Free Trade Doesn't Work: What Should Replace It and Why,
    Ian Fletcher

    https://www.numbersusa.org/

  8. #58
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Others already explained it, you can't force kids who don't want to learn to do so. They become a distraction to everyone else and those 2 years you want to force on them are, i believe in most cases, taxpayer $ better spent elsewhere.
    One troubling thing that I saw a few times was students on the edge of the drop-out age and had checked out. They sold themselves into believing that 16 was enough, and at the age of 14-15 they've had it. No more effort. The false premise of freedom was enough for them, and I saw their weekly assignments just plummet and any interventions tank. Meanwhile, I knew what the statistics were. Again, multi-decade systemic failure and criminality was within reach, even though it didn't need to be.

    Whether or not mandating full participation until the age of 18 or 21 will statistically improve matters is quite honestly up for debate. A cavalier attitude, on the other hand, is almost as bad.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  9. #59
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
    your going to employ the Chinaman anyway, so what differece does the US Citizens education matter?
    Because educated, skilled labor trumps uneducated, unkilled labor any day of the week. It is more efficient. Well educated workers could outproduce the Chinese. Of course, well educated is never going to happen with the 'great' ideas that have been implemented to fix our education system
    "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." : Stephen King

    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto." Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    Because educated, skilled labor trumps uneducated, unkilled labor any day of the week. It is more efficient. Well educated workers could outproduce the Chinese. Of course, well educated is never going to happen with the 'great' ideas that have been implemented to fix our education system
    No, the Hukui, iron rice bowl, slaves in Ant tribes with manipulated currency beats out even the best educated US worker using a machine to do all the work. And machines are not nearly
    as flexable a people. That is why even with automation and loss of some jobs, ALL THE JOBS leave anyway. because there is no "competing" with the Chinaman. read the book in my sig.
    Free Trade Doesn't Work: What Should Replace It and Why,
    Ian Fletcher

    https://www.numbersusa.org/

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