View Poll Results: Should we force kids to finish 12th grade?

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  • Yes, we should force kids to finish 12th Grade

    14 29.79%
  • No, we should NOT force kids to finish 12th Grade

    23 48.94%
  • Other, please explain.

    10 21.28%
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Thread: Dropping out of school

  1. #101
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    From a very early age, we implied to our children that a bachelors degree
    was almost compulsory.
    That said I have a lot of respect for the State Technical Schools.
    It might be worth looking at what the English do, with the test levels
    vectoring kids to vocational programs or University,
    (I don't know much about it, but some of the best engineers I have met came out of that system)

  2. #102
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    I'm of the belief that if a person drops out of school, they can still be successful, not like Bernie Madoff, but a real success. If a person has the drive and ambition to earn more money to purchase life's necessities, why not?

    I have heard on MSM that many college educated people are out of work.

    Back in the mid 80's, my cousin had a degree for teaching, he worked flipping burgers, washing cars, and doing odd jobs, living with mom & pop, til he was finally offered a teaching job, 5 years of that BS.

    It's not a question of whether or not someone can make money without a college degree. It's a fact that college makes it much easier to do so.

  3. #103
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    It's not a question of whether or not someone can make money without a college degree. It's a fact that college makes it much easier to do so.
    I know college educated people can earn more. I like Longview's post best so far. For dropouts, vocational, trade, or technical schools, people who drop out can still obtain a GED, so dropping out is not a life ending experience.

  4. #104
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    I know college educated people can earn more. I like Longview's post best so far. For dropouts, vocational, trade, or technical schools, people who drop out can still obtain a GED, so dropping out is not a life ending experience.
    while it is not expected to be a life ending experience it is a quality of life ending experience for most of them
    these graphs pre-date the notso great recession. i would anticipate the pain felt today by dropouts exceeds even what these graphs depict

    Dropping out of school-graph-earnings-education-level-jpg

    Dropping out of school-graph-unemployment-rate-education-level-jpg

    and here is one which has implications for us all. single parent status by education level. there is a strong correlation between single parenthood and being a welfare recipient

    Dropping out of school-graph-single-parent-education-level-jpg

    if we want to mitigate welfare, incarceration, poverty, then we should do whatever we can to assure our minors graduate from high school
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  5. #105
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    while it is not expected to be a life ending experience it is a quality of life ending experience for most of them
    these graphs pre-date the notso great recession. i would anticipate the pain felt today by dropouts exceeds even what these graphs depict

    Dropping out of school-graph-earnings-education-level-jpg

    Dropping out of school-graph-unemployment-rate-education-level-jpg

    and here is one which has implications for us all. single parent status by education level. there is a strong correlation between single parenthood and being a welfare recipient

    Dropping out of school-graph-single-parent-education-level-jpg

    if we want to mitigate welfare, incarceration, poverty, then we should do whatever we can to assure our minors graduate from high school
    Short of force.

    You can make a child go to school, but you cannot make the child learn.

    Same thing with horses, you can lead them to water, but you.....

    nevermind.

    I'd like someone here to tell me how a single parent, like a mother can FORCE her child or children to attend school? When children become truants, parents are the scapegoat and are gone after with unjust diligence, how does that solve a problem? Fine or incarcerate the parent? then what?

    A close relative of mine had two boys, he'd drop them off at the front doors of the school, he'd put the car in drive, round the corner, and his boys were walking out the back doors of the school. What's the answer? How do you apply force?

    I never had problems with my children cutting school or dropping out. But, I did work with mine, when they did homework, I'd sit down near them and if they had questions, I helped them figure it out. Maybe that's what needs to happen. Parents need to be more involved with a child's curriculum?

  6. #106
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no. they did not
    until the GI bill became available to veterans after WWII, a college education was the privy of the elite and those very academically gifted, who often attended only because of offered scholarships
    it was not until the advent of the GI bill that college enrollments boomed
    the graphs would not load but you can see them here: History of U.S. Higher Education | Education Advisor
    When people talk about "public education," they aren't talking about a college degree; they're talking about completion of secondary schooling.

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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    Well I either want to be a professor or look into law so they have worth there
    And that was half my point (the other half being that even if you were pressured by your parents toward that first degree, it surely was your own choice to earn the second). I too have "worthless" degrees, and it cracks me up when I read posts here at DP about those degrees from folks who don't know what they're talking about.

  8. #108
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Should the ability to drop out of high school be allowed? Or should we start forcing students to attend school until they pass 12th grade? (note: this only applies to 17 and younger as adults should be making their own choices)

    Personally I think that we should force them to continue through 12th grade. It is pretty much a requirement in this day and age that people have at least a 12th grade education just to get a job slightly above minimum wage.
    I think that due to the fact that there is so much more to learn, we should not only require students to finish 12th grade, but we must get rid of summer breaks (teachers spend the entire first month of every school year reteaching what the kids forgot over the summer), and we should provide free schooling up to two years of college - call it 13th and 14th grades, if you want. It would be politically and socially very difficult to require those two extra years, but we can make it available if the kids would choose to go to them.
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  9. #109
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    One troubling thing that I saw a few times was students on the edge of the drop-out age and had checked out. They sold themselves into believing that 16 was enough, and at the age of 14-15 they've had it. No more effort. The false premise of freedom was enough for them, and I saw their weekly assignments just plummet and any interventions tank. Meanwhile, I knew what the statistics were. Again, multi-decade systemic failure and criminality was within reach, even though it didn't need to be.

    Whether or not mandating full participation until the age of 18 or 21 will statistically improve matters is quite honestly up for debate. A cavalier attitude, on the other hand, is almost as bad.
    I remember in 4th grade there were some who had checked out and were just distractions. It's also hard to motivate teenagers sometimes, regardless of drop out age. I'm sure you're right that there are some like that, but it seems to me that forcing them to stay to 18 will just result in them adopting the same attitude at 16-17. So just delaying the inevitable and at taxpayer expense

  10. #110
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    Re: Dropping out of school

    There's a great distance between 'forcing' a kid to go to school and providing incentives, motivation, and a responsible upbringing to encourage them to continue.

    A kid doesnt decide overnite to drop out. The parents should be on top of their kid's progress and interests their entire education.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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