View Poll Results: Do you support Obamacare ?

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  • Yes

    31 32.63%
  • No

    50 52.63%
  • other

    15 15.79%
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Thread: Do you support Obamacare ?

  1. #61
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    My question should have been worded like this: Why does Obamacare cost more than the current system? Please explain that to me. (or don't)
    Obamacare costs more than the current (actually not current anymore) system because it expands government control of our healthcare system. Because it adds government programs. Because it INCREASES the deficit. (that would be the increased spending of money the government doesn't have)

    If you want a good explanation of HOW MUCH Obamacare is costing us, I invite you to read this analysis: How much does Obamacare actually cost? | WashingtonExaminer.com
    TANSTAAFL

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    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  2. #62
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    Nope. I have been comparing the current system to the Affordable Care Act the entire time. Don't feel pressured. You don't have to explain to me why Obamacare costs the government more than the current system. You can just ignore the question entirely and pretend that I didn't ask it.

    Does that sound fair? I don't want to stress you out by making you think.
    Take your patronizing attitude and shove it up your ass.

    I'm done with you.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  3. #63
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    My question should have been worded like this: Why does Obamacare cost more than the current system? Please explain that to me. (or don't)
    It costs more because it insures millions of people who would have otherwise utilized the private sector system. It costs more because it mandates numerous additional coverages that the pre-Obamacare system was not required to cover--coverages that many people neither wanted nor needed but are now required to have. It costs more because never in the history of the world has government done anything as economically, efficiently, or effectively as that which can be done by the private sector. It costs more because of the huge new taxes and tens of thousands of pages of new regulations imposed on individuals and the private sector. It costs more because of the massive huge expensive bureaucracy that will have to be expanded or created to manage it--a bureaucracy that will consume more and more of available resources just to feed itself. It costs more because of the massive bribes/reimbursements etc. funneled to insurance companies to get them to participate.

    This was form the GAO report something over a year ago. And the situation has worsened since then:

    Obamacare will increase the long-term federal deficit by $6.2 trillion, according to a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report released today.

    Senator Jeff Sessions (R., Ala.), who requested the report, revealed the findings this morning at a Senate Budget Committee hearing. The report, he said, “confirms everything critics and Republicans were saying about the faults of this bill,” and “dramatically proves that the promises made assuring the nation that the largest new entitlement program in history would not add one dime to the deficit were false. . .
    GAO Report: Obamacare Adds $6.2 Trillion to Long-Term Deficit | National Review Online
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 05-31-14 at 09:52 PM.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It costs more because of the massive huge expensive bureaucracy that will have to be expanded or created to manage it--a bureaucracy that will consume more and more of available resources just to feed itself.
    That is certainly something to consider. I appreciate your response.

  5. #65
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Actually, Obamacare only helps TWO groups. The insurance companies and big government proponents. The insurance companies have a government-mandated market they can play around in and they don't even have to compete with each other. The big government proponents have succeeded, in one more area, in being allowed to tell people what they MUST do...whether they want to or not. That's the only reason Democrats are in bed with the insurance companies.
    Just a few other constituencies of note: It will also help those with pre-existing conditions that previously were uninsurable; it will help the working poor that made too much for medicaid, but could not afford insurance; it will ease the $116B spend each year to provide medical coverage to those that were uninsured; and, it will encourage entrepreneurship as no longer is one tethered to an employer because that is the only place (s)he can get health insurance...

  6. #66
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Just a few other constituencies of note: It will also help those with pre-existing conditions that previously were uninsurable;
    Yeah...if they can afford Obamacare insurance.

    it will help the working poor that made too much for medicaid, but could not afford insurance;
    Yeah...if they can afford Obamacare insurance.

    it will ease the $116B spend each year to provide medical coverage to those that were uninsured;
    Uh-huh...while it increases the cost to the taxpayers for the increases in Medicaid.

    and, it will encourage entrepreneurship as no longer is one tethered to an employer because that is the only place (s)he can get health insurance...
    LOL!! You REALLY think so? I'm sure you don't have any numbers to support that contention. I'm guessing that's going to go down as a Utopian dream.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  7. #67
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It costs more because it insures millions of people who would have otherwise utilized the private sector system. It costs more because it mandates numerous additional coverages that the pre-Obamacare system was not required to cover--coverages that many people neither wanted nor needed but are now required to have. It costs more because never in the history of the world has government done anything as economically, efficiently, or effectively as that which can be done by the private sector. It costs more because of the huge new taxes and tens of thousands of pages of new regulations imposed on individuals and the private sector. It costs more because of the massive huge expensive bureaucracy that will have to be expanded or created to manage it--a bureaucracy that will consume more and more of available resources just to feed itself. It costs more because of the massive bribes/reimbursements etc. funneled to insurance companies to get them to participate.

    This was form the GAO report something over a year ago. And the situation has worsened since then:

    Obamacare will increase the long-term federal deficit by $6.2 trillion, according to a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report released today.

    Senator Jeff Sessions (R., Ala.), who requested the report, revealed the findings this morning at a Senate Budget Committee hearing. The report, he said, “confirms everything critics and Republicans were saying about the faults of this bill,” and “dramatically proves that the promises made assuring the nation that the largest new entitlement program in history would not add one dime to the deficit were false. . .
    GAO Report: Obamacare Adds $6.2 Trillion to Long-Term Deficit | National Review Online
    We appreciate the attempt to support your position with 3rd party evidence, however, the $6.2T is a pile of crap, essentially made up by Jeff Sessions to fuel distain for the PPACA. If you read your article carefully, it says "under one set of assumptions" and the $6.2T number was created by a Senate aide, not the GAO. Conveniently, the articles link to the actual GAO report is a deadlink

    GOP Senator Knowingly Distorts GAO Report He Commissioned To Launch Most Dishonest Attack On Obamacare To Date - Forbes

    The actual GAO report says the actual results could vary between budget deficit reduction and budget deficit increase, depending on whether cost containment is attained.

    http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/651702.pdf

  8. #68
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    I voted other.

    A necessary foot in the door.

    I am hoping that one day that both sides can get their heads out of their butts and the big businesses and unions out of their pockets and figure out a way for all Americans can get decent health care.

    I think the foot in the door is the pre-existing condition clause and a few other assurances made by ACA. I think these issues will make repeal of ACA impossible and unpopular.

  9. #69
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I voted other.

    A necessary foot in the door.

    I am hoping that one day that both sides can get their heads out of their butts and the big businesses and unions out of their pockets and figure out a way for all Americans can get decent health care.

    I think the foot in the door is the pre-existing condition clause and a few other assurances made by ACA. I think these issues will make repeal of ACA impossible and unpopular.
    Yeah...unfortunately, that pre-existing condition clause is one of the poison pills embedded in Obamacare that probably will saddle us with this massive entitlement program...or worse, UHC...for decades to come.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  10. #70
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Yeah...unfortunately, that pre-existing condition clause is one of the poison pills embedded in Obamacare that probably will saddle us with this massive entitlement program...or worse, UHC...for decades to come.
    If you have any better ideas...I am all ears, but the bottom line is that insurance companies have been screwing over people for years. And people working 3 jobs to barely make ends meet who had to consider health insurance a luxury are not only screwed over, but demonized as people making bad choices because they do not have insurance. ( as if every person is able to get fully benefitted jobs - seriously it boggles the mind.

    The only thing I heard from the right for years before ACA was tort reform, vouchers and such. Not really gonna ado it.

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