View Poll Results: Do you support Obamacare ?

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  • Yes

    31 32.63%
  • No

    50 52.63%
  • other

    15 15.79%
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Thread: Do you support Obamacare ?

  1. #41
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    It's insurance.. you do know that it works better when the risk is spread around over more people.. right? That's how these things work. And a large number of those that were uninsured are younger people with less health risks to burden the system.

    If you don't like your plan get a different one.
    This is not single payer. It's insurance. As you say...risk spread around. Which means if you bring in more risk, you pay a bit more than someone who does not. That's the way it works. Or the way it used to work. Obamacare was NOT supposed to guarantee coverage for those with high claims at the same rate as someone who has no claims. But that's what they slipped in under the door. That's part of the reason that premiums (for the healthy people) sky rocketed. If you are sick, your premium went DOWN. Even though you will be using the insurance much more than others.

    That's not right. It's not fair. And it shifts the costs of unhealthy lifestyles to those who don't use insurance that much, whether because of genetics or a healthy lifestyle. There are so many people who are obese (self-inflicted condition), which means they will get metabolic syndrome, if they don't have it already (diabetes, high blood pressure, stroke risk, etc.). All related to their obesity caused by their lifestyle. I, a healthy person, am footing the bill for their lifestyle, even though I live a healthy lifestyle myself. I walk every day, eat veggies & fruit, rarely eat pizza, etc., etc. Despite coming from a morbidly obese family, and tipping the scales at moderate obesity during puberty, I've escaped and have been a normal weight, healthy person all my adult life. It's not easy. My reward? I'm healthy. And I get to pay a higher premium so I can pay for an obese person's health care. Ironic.

    Obamacare promotes unhealthy lifestyles. The healthier you are, the more your premium is in relation to what it would have been last year. The sicker you are, the bigger the break on your premium under Obamacare.

    Insurance ALREADY spread the risk. What is going on now is not spreading the risk. It's something else. It's bringing sick people in at the expense of healthy people. It's forcing people over 50 to pay for the sins of the 40 year olds. (People over 50 automatically pay an increased premium because of their age, even if they are in perfect health. And the premium keeps increasing for each year over 50. This is not the case for those under 50.)

    There is so much that is wrong and unfair with the new system that it's hard to list it all. But it's unfair, to sum up. Previously, insurance was fair. If you will use insurance more, you will pay a higher premium. Makes sense. But that common sense approach has flown the coop.

    There's nothing wrong with paying less for a premium (by a sick person who will have high claims). But no one ever said, and it was never stated, that the high useage people would be paying the same as or less than healthy people. That would be okay in a single payer system. But that's not what we have. Middle class people are footing the bill. Average people are having to take money from other budget items to pay for the premiums that pay for high useage claim people.

    And don't forget that we are forced to buy only one policy. It is illegal to alter it. You DO you know we all have the same policy, right? I know you have maternity care, prescription coverage, inpatient drug rehab coverage, and that you pay for that. Even if there's no chance in hell you'll ever use it. You pay for it. Not the govt.

    The end result is too expensive for ordinary middle class people. It is a hardship on people to the point that some people will be dropping the ins. altogether.

    Yes, more people are covered under Medicaid, a few are getting ins. where previously they had none, and some have LOST their insurance because of the cost.

    You have decided that some people are more important than others. The people this bill helps are more important to you than the ones it hurts. Fair enough. But own up to it. That's what you are saying. I have lost a healthy leg because you have decided it's worth it so that someone else's unhealthy leg can get amputated. I, OTOH, believe that it unnecessary to cut off everyone's leg in order to cut off the one unhealthy leg in the room.

    (NOTE: I can tell you are not one of the ones whose premium went up 65% for less coverage.)
    Last edited by JumpinJack; 05-31-14 at 05:26 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donc View Post
    I support it hopefully; it is a timid step on the way to Unversed Healthcare.


    I trust your meant "universal" health care, and thank you for using the correct term.

    However, I believe you are dreaming in Technacolor. Obamacare is the wrong direction. It is, in fact, a throw back to colonial times of a marriage between business and government as "caretakers" for the masses. It simply spreads out the cost of a medicare program while maintaining and further empowering the profit based stakeholders. Insurance companies, clinics, pharma, hospitals, etc. all reap a windfall here...

    However, the model for universal care is not-for-profit, where government builds and maintains the hospitals, while funding the individual's health care needs.

    In its conception, the means by which is was "piloted" through congress which never read it, exempted themselves and government workers, and lied to get it passed have created a hostile atmosphere; even people who benefited are afraid of it. Ill conceived, incompetently released to the populace, Obamacare has set back the advancement of health care at least another couple of decades.

    This fiasco, to put it very mildly, has alienated and divided the nation even more than it was.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

  3. #43
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    What's not terrific is:
    1) it's unconstitutional,
    2) it is far more expensive than when it was being shilled,
    3) the website is an invitation for identity theft & compromised personal information,
    4) the fact that government agencies not associated with healthcare have access to the information provided by enrolled Americans &
    5) people losing their insurance and/or doctor despite what was shilled.
    1.) The Supreme Court has already ruled on the matter. They call it a tax. Of course politicians were hesitant to use the word tax.
    2.) That was kind of the point. It was supposed to help the government pay less. Who do you think was going ot pay the difference? The expense wasn't going to go away. We are the ones that are going to get stuck paying for this. Again, politicians would be stupid to tell the truth about that.
    3.) Websites can be fixed. This is a distraction and a non-factor.
    4.) Yeah. I am not completely comfortable that private insurance companies will be acting as a branch of the government. That is a bit screwy. I'll agree on that.
    5.) The same as one and two. This never would have got passed if they would have told the truth.

    Obamacare was designed to save the government money. That always sucks for taxpayers and people using government services. That's why this thing is so more favorable to right wing ideologues than it is to left wing ideologues. It's really puzzling the banana split out of me.

    It's like I live in a reverse world in an episode of the Twilight's Zone. Why is everybody acting opposite to what they believe? I don't get it.

  4. #44
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donc View Post
    we can hope that someone in the future will look at this mess
    Yes. That will happen. We will know more about the Affordable Care Act in the future. We can't tell much about it at this point.

    We have to let it sink it for about a decade. Right now we are just listening to rabid dogs with outlandish speculation on both sides of the coin. Nobody really knows if Obamacare is good or bad. We are all guessing and adding a little political spin to the whole thing. It sure is fun.

  5. #45
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    and do absolutely nothing.
    But you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus
    that's going to cost us all a ton of money
    That isn't absolutely nothing. This at least raises revenue for the government and reduces expenses. Republicans were able to acheive an objective that they have always had but now they have someone else to blame for it. This was a massive present to the Republican Party.

    Republicans reached their goal of reducing expenditures without receiving any of the heat associated with it.

  6. #46
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    1.) The Supreme Court has already ruled on the matter. They call it a tax. Of course politicians were hesitant to use the word tax.
    2.) That was kind of the point. It was supposed to help the government pay less. Who do you think was going ot pay the difference? The expense wasn't going to go away. We are the ones that are going to get stuck paying for this. Again, politicians would be stupid to tell the truth about that.
    3.) Websites can be fixed. This is a distraction and a non-factor.
    4.) Yeah. I am not completely comfortable that private insurance companies will be acting as a branch of the government. That is a bit screwy. I'll agree on that.
    5.) The same as one and two. This never would have got passed if they would have told the truth.

    Obamacare was designed to save the government money. That always sucks for taxpayers and people using government services. That's why this thing is so more favorable to right wing ideologues than it is to left wing ideologues. It's really puzzling the banana split out of me.

    It's like I live in a reverse world in an episode of the Twilight's Zone. Why is everybody acting opposite to what they believe? I don't get it.
    You keep harping on how Obamacare was designed to save the government money. I don't see it. Heck, right now, it's costing the government more money that originally stated and there isn't any reduction in sight.

    As far as everyone acting opposite of what they believe, you couldn't be more wrong. The Democrats who foisted this on us and shoved it down our throats are acting exactly as they believe...that the government is the only ones who can do the right thing for people and government control is a good thing. The Republicans are also acting exactly as they believe...less government control and simpler solutions.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  7. #47
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    1.) The Supreme Court has already ruled on the matter. They call it a tax. Of course politicians were hesitant to use the word tax.
    2.) That was kind of the point. It was supposed to help the government pay less. Who do you think was going ot pay the difference? The expense wasn't going to go away. We are the ones that are going to get stuck paying for this. Again, politicians would be stupid to tell the truth about that.
    3.) Websites can be fixed. This is a distraction and a non-factor.
    4.) Yeah. I am not completely comfortable that private insurance companies will be acting as a branch of the government. That is a bit screwy. I'll agree on that.
    5.) The same as one and two. This never would have got passed if they would have told the truth.

    Obamacare was designed to save the government money. That always sucks for taxpayers and people using government services. That's why this thing is so more favorable to right wing ideologues than it is to left wing ideologues. It's really puzzling the banana split out of me.

    It's like I live in a reverse world in an episode of the Twilight's Zone. Why is everybody acting opposite to what they believe? I don't get it.
    The SCOTUS was co-opted long ago.

    And (I can't recall the technical name) the process of having a publicly stated goal & a goal said only in the privacy of the councils of government is a well-established component of government.

  8. #48
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Why does an operation here cost $5,000 and the same there costs $50,000 with no complications in either? Makes. No. Sense.
    Yes it does. This makes perfect sense. Consider this conversation:

    Patient: Hey Doctor, I'm about to die. Will you save my life?
    Doctor: Of course I will. I am a compassionate human and I am obligated by law to save your life.
    Patient: But how much will it cost?
    Doctor: Oh don't you worry about that. Those things aren't important. Do you want me to save your life?
    Patient: Well of course.
    Doctor: Then don't worry about such unimportant things like that. Your health is way more important than money.
    Patient: You are right. Thanks Doctor. You are a great man.

    How much did the surgery cost in the above scenario? Before answering, consider the age old question. Where does a 1,800 pound Gorilla sit?

    Then two answers are pretty much the same. When someone saves your life, you owe them as much money as they ask for. That is why many argue that the profit factor should be removed from the equation.

  9. #49
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Supposedly, it was intended to cover Americans who were not previously covered.

    This sounds like baloney to me
    Of course. Just expand Medicaid to cover every single person in the United States. We all know that this is about raising revenue for the government and reducing government expenditures. It was never intended to cover more people. That would have been easy to acheive.

  10. #50
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare ?

    Do you support Obamacare ?
    other.

    the preexisting conditions part? yes.

    the part that lets college kids keep coverage? yep.

    the fact that it does not remove health coverage from specific employment? nope.

    the fact that it uses some incomprehensible hodgepodge of local private markets in which people will pay vastly different amounts for the same thing? no ****ing way.

    the fact that a public option was off of the table basically from the word go? ((no ****ing way)^2)^n.

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