View Poll Results: When was America most free as a nation?

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  • Between the end of the Revolutionary War and the start of the Civil War?

    18 27.69%
  • Between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of World War One?

    3 4.62%
  • Between the end of WWI and the passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    4 6.15%
  • Today, including the time after passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    40 61.54%
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Thread: When was America most free as a nation?

  1. #51
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    for a brief few years between the beginning of the Adams administration and the end of the Jefferson administration.
    Why?

    And remember, at that time slavery was still the law of the land, and women couldn't vote.
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  2. #52
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    LOL at the white men who chose a time period other than now. Clueless.
    Eh, in the 1960s or 1970s I would have been locked up in an institution by the time I turned 5 or 6 as soon as they found me out. Heck, we received pressure in the early 90s to do that to one of our family members when he was 4-5.

    But you know, I'm supposed to clamor for the days of yore, because "liberty" and all that jazz existed before minorities showed up and were in a better situation.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 05-24-14 at 05:24 PM.
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  3. #53
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The inalienable right to be who and what I am with impunity is what the Founders risked all they owned and their very lives to give me and sealed it with an amazing document called the Constitution. For somebody else to presume to dictate who and what I must be and how I am required to live my life for 'the greater good' is the precise kind of totalitarianism the Founders fought a costly and bloody war to ensure I would never have to be subject to that.

    Who decides who is worthy to judge how I must live my life? Who is noble enough or pure enough not to succumb to temptation to use such power for their own benefit? And once they do, who is empowered to tell them to cease and desist and make it stick?

    We either are a people who govern ourselves as the Founders intended or we give up all our freedom to a government that dictates what liberties and privileges we are allowed to have and can just as quickly take away those same liberties and privileges.
    That's what you're not getting - nobody's judging how you must live your life. You can live as you will...but you must live your life with consideration for those around you.

    So you want to use all the water you can. And all of a sudden everybody else in the city decides they can, too. All of a sudden there's not enough water to go around...and everybody suffers...including you.

    So is it better to allow you and everyone else to be as wasteful as you want to be with resources if we know that this could result in problems for the entire city down the road? Or is it better to put limits on everyone's use - to allow enough use of those resources to live comfortably, but not to be wasteful with them - to prevent those problems from happening in the first place?
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  4. #54
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Depends on how you define freedom. If you are a leftist and freedom means an affirmative duty on others to give you something, then perhaps today. If it means being able to act on your own without government interference-probably 120 years ago
    You took the words right out of my mouth.

    I chose option #2, from the end of the civil war until WWI, because we are talking about the nation as a whole, aka on a federal level. Once slavery was abolished, everyone in America had the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A black person's vote was finally counted the same as a white persons vote, and just after WWI women received nationally, the right to vote.

    Our freedoms have been disappearing little by little ever since and things are worse today than they have ever been.

  5. #55
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    My point, in case you missed it, was that the poverty rate remains stable despite spending ever more. You asserted that, at some point, poverty program spending would level off (or decline) as the poverty rate stabilized. The poverty rate has been stable, with the possible exception of recession periods, yet poverty program spending continues to rise.
    No, I got your point - of course I did! But I was also pointing out that there's many other factors involved other than just throwing money at the poor. For instance, in the beginning of LBJ's Great Society, there was no advanced care for poor children who become sick. There was no advanced care for disabled children - and our understanding of mental problems was primitive compared to what we know now. For instance, back in 2005 I calculated how much it was costing the taxpayer to care for my two medically-fragile Foster children - it was a quarter million dollars per child, per year...and that was not counting medications and medical treatment. Would they have received the same level of care in LBJ's time? Of course not...but the cost of these children - and all disabled or mentally-challenged children - are part of what adds up to that huge increase in the cost that your charts show.

    And then there's the significant rise in ADD/ADHD cases - that's caught our whole society off guard, and we still don't know for sure what's driving the rise (which isn't simply a matter of more accurate diagnoses). There's the rise in autism cases - and such kids are a real challenge - one of my Foster children was a low-functioning autistic teenager with a mental age of about 12-18 months. He's in adult assisted-living now...and I honestly miss him, as loudly as he would scream when he wanted attention.

    Another factor going into that skyrocketing cost on your charts is our aging population - the adults who can no longer care for themselves, and who do not have family to care for them. Guess who's paying for their care? The taxpayers.

    You see, it isn't just a matter of giving money to poor people who don't want to work - yes, there are some who will game the system, but most don't - most hate being on the dole and would much rather have a decent job. It's more of a matter of providing care to those who cannot care for themselves, to a degree that we've never done before.

    THAT is one of the major drivers in the skyrocketing cost of our social safety net.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  6. #56
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    You took the words right out of my mouth.

    I chose option #2, from the end of the civil war until WWI, because we are talking about the nation as a whole, aka on a federal level. Once slavery was abolished, everyone in America had the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A black person's vote was finally counted the same as a white persons vote, and just after WWI women received nationally, the right to vote.

    Our freedoms have been disappearing little by little ever since and things are worse today than they have ever been.
    Says the guy who has zero clue about what happened during the Jim Crow years...including how blacks were so often prevented from voting. And I notice you chose the option that said America was most free before women got the right to vote.

    I suggest you go read your American history.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #57
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Once slavery was abolished, everyone in America had the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Not really. For African Americans, for instance, this was the time period in which lynchings were an epidemic. Lynchings which had the cooperation of government authorities, and a government which could not even pass an anti-lynching law. This was also a time period in which states across the country were starting to pass mandatory sterilization laws. You can keep extrapolating from there.

    A black person's vote was finally counted the same as a white persons vote,
    If they were allowed to get to the polls and vote, that is.

    and just after WWI women received nationally, the right to vote.
    Which occurred after your time period.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Dude - Missouri's not part of the Deep South. Missouri was just a border state in the Civil War. You've got a LOT to learn about the South if you think Missouri's really part of the Deep South.
    Dude...Puget Sound, Washington is not part of the Deep South. I have NOTHING to learn, because I know where I'm from and it AIN'T Missouri originally. I root for the Arkansas Razorbacks and I am a NATIVE of the great state of ARKANSAS. Living in Missouri is my equivalent to YOU living in the state of Washington. But apparently you have trouble comprehending small facts such as that.........dude.

    And your claims about how terrible whites have it, and how racist blacks are, are simply evidence that you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. You're just another (probably white and older) conservative who's ticked that his America - the one where the whites were always on top of everything - has been taken away from him.

    You can have the last word - I won't reply. Good day, sir.
    I've got a link for you....dude. Which should piss you off but royally. But DUDE....it's true. Have a nice read on what is REALLY HAPPENING IN AMERICA sir.

    WHITE GIRL BLEED A LOT
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  9. #59
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by HogWash View Post
    Dude...Puget Sound, Washington is not part of the Deep South. I have NOTHING to learn, because I know where I'm from and it AIN'T Missouri originally. I root for the Arkansas Razorbacks and I am a NATIVE of the great state of ARKANSAS. Living in Missouri is my equivalent to YOU living in the state of Washington. But apparently you have trouble comprehending small facts such as that.........dude.



    I've got a link for you....dude. Which should piss you off but royally. But DUDE....it's true. Have a nice read on what is REALLY HAPPENING IN AMERICA sir.

    WHITE GIRL BLEED A LOT
    Guy, I grew up in the MS Delta. My family - brother, mother, grandpa, grandma, and her parents and their parents before them - are all buried there in a cemetery by a small Southern Baptist church in Sunflower County. I know the Deep South VERY well, and my roots there run deeper than most. I will be the first in my direct family line since the Civil War to be buried outside of that little cemetery.

    Arkansas does qualify as Deep South...but the MS Delta is the very deepest of the Deep South. Nowhere else comes close.

    I miss the Delta - I miss the land, the dirt, even the doggone gumbo (and I'm not referring to the kind you eat). I miss the weather, the sun, the heat, the big sky, the sounds of the birds, the smell of the air. I miss the freedom to drive like a bat out of hell if I really wanted to, the ability to walk anywhere around there even into the bayous and know what all the plants are. I miss the food most of all - you can't get good Southern food out here for love or money. I don't even mind the snakes there in the Delta. I do mind the skeeters...but that's part of life in the Delta.

    But I'll never live there again - I've been back so many times since I left (the last time being this past February for the death of my brother)...and every time I go there I see more and more of the racism (much of it in my own family - and yes, I was raised racist, though we never thought of it that way)...and that's just the way it is there. If one is white and raised there, chances are almost certain that one going to be racist at least to some degree...but that one will swear up and down that he's not racist - he really believes he's not. He'll risk his life without a second thought to help a black man in danger, and he'll gladly share of the bounty of his garden with blacks who have less...but as soon as those blacks are out of earshot, out come all the old prejudices, all the old n-word jokes, all the old assumptions...and so the young are carefully taught, like the song goes in "South Pacific".

    Very, very few people know the South like I do, guy...because very few have made the journey I have, from being a racist - while honestly swearing up and down that I never was one - to seeing how deep the racism there goes.

    So spare me your white victimhood, guy, because most whites - not all, but most - in the Deep South are still doing their level best to keep their positions of power and supremacy in society there...the most obvious examples being the "segregation academies" that still exist...particularly in Mississippi. By the way, you do know that Mississippi's ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment abolishing slavery only became official last year, don't you?
    Last edited by Glen Contrarian; 05-24-14 at 06:19 PM.
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    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #60
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Says the guy who has zero clue about what happened during the Jim Crow years...including how blacks were so often prevented from voting. .

    The question was, "when was America most free as a nation". Jim Crow laws were not the law of the land... Those were put into place on a state and regional level, they weren't passed by congress and signed by the president.

    Don't assume to know the knowlege I possess, just because my opinion doesn't meet with your approval.



    And I notice you chose the option that said America was most free before women got the right to vote.

    I suggest you go read your American history
    Why do you think I mentioned a woman's right to vote in the first place? It was the one thing outside of the dateline I chose, that I wanted to be included with American freedoms. FFS

    As for your suggestion, I often read things related to American history and consider my knowledge on the subject well above the average... Now since we're handing out advice, here's a suggestion I have for you.

    When you use a false premise in order to attack or criticize people of opposing political beliefs, and you are called out for doing so, your best option (the most honest and most correct) is to either come clean, apologize and/or retract the post... as opposed to trying to legitimize or justify that false premise, by posting links to websites that not only prove that your premise was in fact false, but that you knew it was false when you posted it. What that does is transform your post from being nothing more than a simple mistake, into a calculated, purposeful lie on your part. I'm sure you are aware of the post I'm referring to, so there's no need for me to go into more detail.

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