View Poll Results: When was America most free as a nation?

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  • Between the end of the Revolutionary War and the start of the Civil War?

    18 27.69%
  • Between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of World War One?

    3 4.62%
  • Between the end of WWI and the passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    4 6.15%
  • Today, including the time after passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    40 61.54%
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Thread: When was America most free as a nation?

  1. #21
    Educator HogWash's Avatar
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    When the American Indians were the ONLY inhabitants.
    Liberalism—dividing up the EARNED wealth of honest, hard working and ingenious AMERICANS and giving it to the leeches who would rather waste their worthless lives living off the government teat.
    -----HogWash-----

  2. #22
    Educator HogWash's Avatar
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And that's been my whole point all along. Unfortunately, there's some out there who think that it's only the rights of white hetero males that count.
    And there are some out there that think that it's only the rights of black people to be the victims of "racism". That white people ONLY are racists.
    Liberalism—dividing up the EARNED wealth of honest, hard working and ingenious AMERICANS and giving it to the leeches who would rather waste their worthless lives living off the government teat.
    -----HogWash-----

  3. #23
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I do not think there is a right answer, different people will view this differently for different reasons, circumstances, situations and the like. In my lifetime I would say the time I was growing up. There was a whole lot less laws, regulations, mandates and most people were freer from the controls of Washington D.C. Washington didn't effect peoples daily lives like it does today, there was no medicare, no EPA, no Departments of Energy, Department of Education, and on and on.
    But by the same token, there's no Jim Crow now either...and 18 y.o. men who can fight and die for our nation can now vote where in your time they could not...and LGBT's had to keep their lives secret or they could and would lose their jobs.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #24
    Sometimes wrong

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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And as I've pointed out so often before, you pay anyway. You'll either pay to help the poor and indigent through your taxes...or you'll pay for what happens when they have zero support in the form of higher taxes for more police, more court cases, more prisons, and in the form of higher prices because the more homeless there are near a business, the fewer people will go to that business, the higher the insurance rates for businesses will be, and the higher the crime rates will be.

    Like I said, you pay anyway. You'll either pay to help them and maybe even give them the opportunity to rise above their station...or you'll pay for what happens when they become homeless.

    Personally I think the first option makes a lot more sense.
    Yet we now fight two very expensive, conflicting and endless "wars" - the war on poverty and the war on drugs. If the result was actually lower crime and an ever decreasing percentage in prison/poverty I would start to agree with your "more gov't" choices. One only need examine the areas that recieve the bulk of this poverty assistance to find that they still commit the most crime.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #25
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by HogWash View Post
    And there are some out there that think that it's only the rights of black people to be the victims of "racism". That white people ONLY are racists.
    So...if a certain population of America doesn't have the rights of the rest of the population, that's okay with you?

    And when it comes to white racism...dude, I'm from the Deep South - don't tell me how terrible white males have it compared to blacks. They were and in many ways still very much are victims of white racism. You can deny that all day long if you like, but you can't change history.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  6. #26
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? You do realize, of course, that included in the time you show are slavery for the first 89 or so years of our country's existence, and Jim Crow for all nonwhites afterwards...and women could not vote until something like 1921. And let's not forget that LGBT's basically had zero rights until public opinion finally began shifting in the 1990's.

    But of course if we consider only white heterosexual males, you're right that it was freer then than it is now.
    There is nothing whatsoever one can say to condone or justify slavery. And nobody in that first American Congress presumed to do that. What they did presume to do is to allow the various states the freedom to be who and what they were, the first Americans to be who and what they were, so that a cohesive strong nation could be formed. The Founders knew that freedom required the right to be wrong as well as right and trusted a free people who governed themselves to make mistakes but learn from them, and eventually get it more right than wrong.

    So yes, here and there you had pockets of culture we all...that is ALL of us....would not condone today. For instance, there were very restrictive and demanding little theocracies in some of the colonies. But without any pressure or requirement from the Federal government, pretty much every one of them had voluntarily dissolved by the turn of the century never to reappear again.

    Likewise slavery persisted in some places for some time, but there was increasing criticism and pressure to end it. Had there been no Civil War, it might have taken a little longer, but America would have ended slavery voluntarily just as Canada and Mexico had done before it. And it would have been without a bloody, devastating civil war and without so much trauma for the slaves who were made freemen. There are shades of gray in just about all public policy.

    Public opinion has always been a component of a free society. And it generally usually gets it right if left to run its course. It is only when the Federal government presumes to dictate what public opinion is required to be that we start seeing government assign our rights instead of us exercising our rights, and that always results in erosion and sometimes destruction of those same rights.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #27
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Depends on how you define freedom. If you are a leftist and freedom means an affirmative duty on others to give you something, then perhaps today. If it means being able to act on your own without government interference-probably 120 years ago



  8. #28
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yet we now fight two very expensive, conflicting and endless "wars" - the war on poverty and the war on drugs. If the result was actually lower crime and an ever decreasing percentage in prison/poverty I would start to agree with your "more gov't" choices. One only need examine the areas that recieve the bulk of this poverty assistance to find that they still commit the most crime.
    The war on drugs was and is completely unnecessary...and did not work, since its main focus was not on treatment and prevention, but on enforcement. The inclusion of the war on drugs actually works to support my "you pay anyway" point.

    And when it comes to poverty, I'm sure that you will agree that there will always be poverty - it can never be eliminated. The fact that it can never be eliminated means that there will be a point that we can no longer diminish the poverty rate no matter how much we spend. The trick is to know where that bottom is, and how much we must spend in order to keep the poverty rate from rising above that level. But the key is, you will pay anyway, either for the social safety net, or for the results of not having a social safety net. It's like the old oil commercial - "You can pay me now, or pay me later"...the implication obviously being, "but you WILL pay no matter what".
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #29
    Angry Former GOP Voter
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If it means being able to act on your own without government interference-probably 120 years ago
    Yeah, but for which group of people? There were many groups which had government-sanctioned social restrictions, or government-created restrictions. I mean, for me, it's no question. Post Civil Rights Act, I have been granted both social access (which libertarians see as coercive) as well as a removal of many (though, not all) governmental restrictions traditionally placed on folks in my broad category.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 05-24-14 at 03:56 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  10. #30
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    But by the same token, there's no Jim Crow now either...and 18 y.o. men who can fight and die for our nation can now vote where in your time they could not...and LGBT's had to keep their lives secret or they could and would lose their jobs.
    All very true and that is why I said this at the beginning: I do not think there is a right answer, different people will view this differently for different reasons, circumstances, situations and the like.

    For me I was definitely freer from all the control of Washington D.C. back in the 50's. So for me that is my answer. For the black man who owned the farm next to ours, he would give you a different answers which is his right. I go back to there is no right answer. I do think Washington today controls too much of its citizens lives, but in doing so there are some citizens who are freer than when Washington didn't exert so much control over everyone's daily lives. But not mine. When I grew up Washington D.C. might as well have been on Mars for all the control they had over peoples lives, today that city should be right across the street and soon it will be in my backyard.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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