View Poll Results: When was America most free as a nation?

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  • Between the end of the Revolutionary War and the start of the Civil War?

    18 27.69%
  • Between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of World War One?

    3 4.62%
  • Between the end of WWI and the passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    4 6.15%
  • Today, including the time after passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    40 61.54%
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Thread: When was America most free as a nation?

  1. #11
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I understand what you are saying...but I would reply that the lack of freedoms to which you refer are largely concerning business and money, whereas personal freedoms are significantly greater now than before.
    Making a basic living unfettered by gov't regulation is not small matter as a personal freedom.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #12
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I understand what you are saying...but I would reply that the lack of freedoms to which you refer are largely concerning business and money, whereas personal freedoms are significantly greater now than before.
    Are they? I'm not seeing it when the federal government can control what kind of lightbulb or toilet I am allowed to manufacture or buy, what the gas mileage on my automobile must be, refuse me the right to use my own property as I choose, confiscate any portion of my personal property they choose to take, dictate the kind of healthcare I am required to buy, and can launch a federal investigation of my activities just because I am accused of being politically incorrect.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #13
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Making a basic living unfettered by gov't regulation is not small matter as a personal freedom.
    And when the government steps in and lessens the rate of poverty?

    Which is better - an "unfettered" life where more are living in poverty, or a life where the government takes action to do that which lessens the rate of poverty among the people?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #14
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Was it before the Civil War, or before WWI, or before the Civil Rights Act, or today?

    And why do you think so?
    depends on who you ask



  5. #15
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And when the government steps in and lessens the rate of poverty?

    Which is better - an "unfettered" life where more are living in poverty, or a life where the government takes action to do that which lessens the rate of poverty among the people?
    If you value having the freedom to demand that others support you then we are certainly getting more and more of it. The US poverty rate has remained fairly constant, at 12% to 15%, since 1962 but the cost to keep it that way continues to rise.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #16
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Are they? I'm not seeing it when the federal government can control what kind of lightbulb or toilet I am allowed to manufacture or buy,
    Incandescent bulbs and high-water-use toilets waste resources that are becoming more scarce to the population as a whole. Which is more important - your personal right to unnecessarily waste resources, or doing that which maximizes the resources available to the population as a whole?

    what the gas mileage on my automobile must be,
    Again, which is more important - your 'right' to unnecessarily waste resources, or maximizing the availability of those resources to the population as a whole?

    refuse me the right to use my own property as I choose, confiscate any portion of my personal property they choose to take,
    I defy you to find a nation where the government does not reserve the right to take your property if it feels a very real need to do so. In other words, unless you live somewhere where you are not a member of any nation, you never truly own your land - the government can take it if they really feel the need to do so. This has been true in every government, ever. The only difference is that in most first-world democracies like America, it's harder for the nation to do so...but they still can. So get over it.

    dictate the kind of healthcare I am required to buy,
    Yeah, you're special - you'll never, ever need healthcare that you wouldn't be able to afford, and shame on the government for enforcing a law that saves you money and ensures you have access to almost any health care you need, and you can't be denied or dropped. Shame on the government for doing that, huh?

    and can launch a federal investigation of my activities just because I am accused of being politically incorrect.
    If you'll check, this has been the case all through American history...and in most other nations, too.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
    Not so much - the iceberg's not what it once was - global warming, y'know....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #17
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    With gay marriage legalization beginning to sweep the nation (feels like it, anyway), drug policy proved to be the sham they are, racial minorities seeing far better days, and a more diverse nation in positions of power in comparison to decades before, I'm going with right now.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

  8. #18
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If you value having the freedom to demand that others support you then we are certainly getting more and more of it. The US poverty rate has remained fairly constant, at 12% to 15%, since 1962 but the cost to keep it that way continues to rise.
    And as I've pointed out so often before, you pay anyway. You'll either pay to help the poor and indigent through your taxes...or you'll pay for what happens when they have zero support in the form of higher taxes for more police, more court cases, more prisons, and in the form of higher prices because the more homeless there are near a business, the fewer people will go to that business, the higher the insurance rates for businesses will be, and the higher the crime rates will be.

    Like I said, you pay anyway. You'll either pay to help them and maybe even give them the opportunity to rise above their station...or you'll pay for what happens when they become homeless.

    Personally I think the first option makes a lot more sense.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #19
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Basten View Post
    With gay marriage legalization beginning to sweep the nation (feels like it, anyway), drug policy proved to be the sham they are, racial minorities seeing far better days, and a more diverse nation in positions of power in comparison to decades before, I'm going with right now.
    And that's been my whole point all along. Unfortunately, there's some out there who think that it's only the rights of white hetero males that count.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #20
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Was it before the Civil War, or before WWI, or before the Civil Rights Act, or today?

    And why do you think so?
    I do not think there is a right answer, different people will view this differently for different reasons, circumstances, situations and the like. In my lifetime I would say the time I was growing up. There was a whole lot less laws, regulations, mandates and most people were freer from the controls of Washington D.C. Washington didn't effect peoples daily lives like it does today, there was no medicare, no EPA, no Departments of Energy, Department of Education, and on and on.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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