View Poll Results: When was America most free as a nation?

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  • Between the end of the Revolutionary War and the start of the Civil War?

    18 27.69%
  • Between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of World War One?

    3 4.62%
  • Between the end of WWI and the passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    4 6.15%
  • Today, including the time after passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    40 61.54%
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Thread: When was America most free as a nation?

  1. #151
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Was it before the Civil War, or before WWI, or before the Civil Rights Act, or today?



    And why do you think so?


    Before it ever became a nation.

    Before Columbus 'discovered the Americas and the colonists brought Black slaves here from Africa.

    The reason why I believe that is because it is a simple fact.




    "All of the problems that we face in the USA today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian." ~ Pat Paulsen

  2. #152
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Before it ever became a nation.

    Before Columbus 'discovered the Americas and the colonists brought Black slaves here from Africa.

    The reason why I believe that is because it is a simple fact.




    "All of the problems that we face in the USA today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian." ~ Pat Paulsen
    Really? Perhaps you should go back and study what their cultures were like. For the most part, we do not know what their cultures were like because 90% of them were wiped out by smallpox and assorted diseases that we brought over with us...and they didn't leave written records. But we do know what the cultures of the Incas, Mayans, Aztecs, and assorted tribes we've found in the jungles of modern-day Brazil were like. This story is somewhat enlightening in that respect.

    So...no, there's no way to really measure the level of freedom that America's pre-Columbus tribes had or did not have. There are stories about the Iroquois Confederation and the Navajos and so forth...but remember, this was after we introduced smallpox - their populations and cultures had been devastated, and so we can't be sure of what their cultures were really like before they had recovered from losing up to 90% of their respective populations.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #153
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager1 View Post
    No. Taxes doesn't mean you lose freedom.
    that's ridiculous. taxes take wealth, often wealth one earns through working. The more taxes taken, means the more of your time is taken by the government



  4. #154
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's ridiculous. taxes take wealth, often wealth one earns through working. The more taxes taken, means the more of your time is taken by the government
    Yeah, get rid of ALL taxes! It's all just theft from individuals from the eeeeeeeevil government! Who needs roads and police and firefighters and a strong military anyway?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #155
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yeah, get rid of ALL taxes! It's all just theft from individuals from the eeeeeeeevil government! Who needs roads and police and firefighters and a strong military anyway?
    Even if the net effect is positive, let's not pretend that taxes aren't a loss of freedom. If the government tapped every phone, that would make us safer, but the increase in safety wouldn't change the fact that the loss of privacy would be a decrease in freedom.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  6. #156
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Even if the net effect is positive, let's not pretend that taxes aren't a loss of freedom. If the government tapped every phone, that would make us safer, but the increase in safety wouldn't change the fact that the loss of privacy would be a decrease in freedom.
    High or low taxes has nothing to do with whether or not the government taps every phone. That's like comparing the price of a ticket to a home game of baseball has any bearing on whether the team's owners decide to bug all the seats in the stadium - makes no sense, does it? No offense, but neither does your comment.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #157
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    High or low taxes has nothing to do with whether or not the government taps every phone. That's like comparing the price of a ticket to a home game of baseball has any bearing on whether the team's owners decide to bug all the seats in the stadium - makes no sense, does it? No offense, but neither does your comment.
    It's called an analogy. Let me give you another one. You need a new TV and someone sells you a $1000 TV for $100. You made a great deal right? You would've been dumb to not take it right? According to your logic, if it was a great deal, you didn't even spend $100. What TD was saying, is that taxes are a loss of freedom, even if something better comes from it. He wasn't expressing an opinion; he was stating a fact.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  8. #158
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? Perhaps you should go back and study what their cultures were like. For the most part, we do not know what their cultures were like because 90% of them were wiped out by smallpox and assorted diseases that we brought over with us...and they didn't leave written records. But we do know what the cultures of the Incas, Mayans, Aztecs, and assorted tribes we've found in the jungles of modern-day Brazil were like. This story is somewhat enlightening in that respect.

    So...no, there's no way to really measure the level of freedom that America's pre-Columbus tribes had or did not have. There are stories about the Iroquois Confederation and the Navajos and so forth...but remember, this was after we introduced smallpox - their populations and cultures had been devastated, and so we can't be sure of what their cultures were really like before they had recovered from losing up to 90% of their respective populations.



    Correct. Much of the history of Native American people is still a mystery to us.

    If the Europeans had come here to study and learn about these people instead of to conquer them and take their land we would know more about them.

  9. #159
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    I say before the passage of the Civil Rights Act.

    I know this is controversial, but my reasoning is that we already had in place the amendments to the constitution after the Civil War. i honestly believe that we would have less racism today if we let it dissipate naturally. Yes, I believe it would have dissipated naturally if not forced upon hard headed ignorant people.

  10. #160
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    It's called an analogy. Let me give you another one. You need a new TV and someone sells you a $1000 TV for $100. You made a great deal right? You would've been dumb to not take it right? According to your logic, if it was a great deal, you didn't even spend $100. What TD was saying, is that taxes are a loss of freedom, even if something better comes from it. He wasn't expressing an opinion; he was stating a fact.
    Problem is, he - and you, apparently - are making an assumption that if a government is bigger, it must automatically start bugging its own citizens, and this is a completely false assumption. America did with the NSA...but this does not automatically mean that all big governments do. Look at the other 'big government' nations, like Germany, France, Australia, NZ, Japan, Italy...do these nations do so? We have no real proof that they do so, do we? No.

    On the other hand, do nations with smaller governments monitor their citizens? Yes, they can and some do so...particularly those that are not democracies or do not have a long tradition of democracy. For instance, look at the several nations in Africa where the people are monitored for homosexual behavior, or actions that are against Sharia law?

    In other words, the size of the government is NOT an indication of more or less freedom. That's just a false assumption on TD's - and your - part.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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