View Poll Results: When was America most free as a nation?

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  • Between the end of the Revolutionary War and the start of the Civil War?

    18 27.69%
  • Between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of World War One?

    3 4.62%
  • Between the end of WWI and the passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    4 6.15%
  • Today, including the time after passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    40 61.54%
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Thread: When was America most free as a nation?

  1. #111
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    and the ones who support gun rights are conservative. The ones who support marriage rights and reproductiver rights are liberals. The ones who support all of the above, along with legalization of pot, oppose the Patriot Act and asset forfeiture, are the libertarians.

    Now, who is the most pro liberty?
    Really? You mean like alleged uber-libertarian Ron Paul supports gay marriage rights and abortion rights? Oh, wait - he doesn't. And if you'll check, 80% of libertarians vote Republican.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  2. #112
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Man View Post
    The United States are not a nation. They are a federation of sovereign states.
    Mm-hmm...riiiiiiight. Whatever, guy.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #113
    global liberation

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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Was it before the Civil War, or before WWI, or before the Civil Rights Act, or today?

    And why do you think so?
    Before the War of Northern (and Mexican) Aggression, because we done had the right to own peoples... and they done liked it!

    Next, on Duck Dynasty...

  4. #114
    Imposition of miscellany
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Was it before the Civil War, or before WWI, or before the Civil Rights Act, or today?

    And why do you think so?
    Before the Europeans came.

  5. #115
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? You mean like alleged uber-libertarian Ron Paul supports gay marriage rights and abortion rights? Oh, wait - he doesn't. And if you'll check, 80% of libertarians vote Republican.
    It's true that that word is misused, but if someone truly is a libertarian, they support freedom more than liberals or conservatives do. To disagree with that is to disagree with the dictionary.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  6. #116
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Wouldn't it have been easier to just ask if you're a conservative or liberal?

  7. #117
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Was it before the Civil War, or before WWI, or before the Civil Rights Act, or today?

    And why do you think so?
    1691.

  8. #118
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Those who demand that the federal government enforce 'freedom' by mandating a particular stance on a social issue are not people who understand or promote freedom. Such people support a return to tyranny. The Founders understood that.

    Those who understand freedom understand the following:

    1. A free people has a central government that enacts sufficent law and regulation to promote the general (everybody's) welfare, that allows the several states to function as one nation, and to prevent the several states from doing violence to each other.

    2. A free people has a central government that provides the common defense and secures the unalienable rights of the people.

    3. A free people is then free to live their lives as they choose and form whatever sorts of societies they wish to have.

    There is no freedom in anarchy.

    There is no freedom when the government dictates the rights that the people will have.

    There is no freedom when the government dictates social policy for everybody.

    So we had great freedom up until around the end of the 19th century and in the first decades of the 20th century. But Teddy Roosevelt turned the Constitution on its head by giving the federal government powers it had never been allowed. And that started a snowball rolling that has been gaining mass and speed ever since. And we now have a federal government that increasingly dictates what rights and property we are allowed to have and what policies we are required to incorporate into our societies, and who and what we are allowed to be.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #119
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Other: It was never a free nation and is not a free nation now. The idea of a "free nation" is more of an oxymoron than any reachable truth. There has not been one state, that I can think of off the top of my head, that I would assign the term "free". I guess, if you wanted an answer to it, the US was the "most free" under the Articles of Confederation however there are very obvious objections to the ie slavery (duh) and very limited voting rights.

    To go through all the periods and why I would not consider them free:

    Revolution to Civil War: I answered part above. Another example would be the Alien and Sedition Acts. Very unfree idea. Jackson's Trail of Tears idea certainly is not something that comes to mind when talking about freedom. High tariffs were also prominent in this period. Economic freedom is just as important as social and political freedom

    Civil War to WWI: very pro-business government. Workers lived in **** conditions until the progressives who were also filled with eugenicists. WWI was not something that I would consider a war congruent with defense. There's evidence that we were warned that the Lusitania was going down but WW did nothing. Also saw the introduction of the Fed in this period. Poor idea from the jump. Another war was the Spanish-American (Imperialist) conflict where we siezed the Phillipines. Empires are never free. Still poor voting rights (women).

    WWI to Civil Rights: Well Keynes happened in here. He certainly wasn't a champion of economic freedom. Cold War was here too. Too much propaganda to know left from right. And of course, social freedom was limited until the Civil Rights movement which I will admit was a bright spot in American History. We at least tried to get something right; get a single, quiet clap for that one. Can't forget the Red Scare and how that really narrowed down journalism with the blacklisting and such. Vietnam, Korea, every other conflict we were entangled in unnecessarily. Not free if you ask me

    Today: HAHAHAHAHA. You made a funny I like you. I will only write three specific pieces of legislation to make my case here: "Patriot" Act, Bush's "Constitution free zones", and NDAA2012-present. Of course there are other examples I can think of including but certainly not limited to the continued use of Gitmo, domestic surveillance, police militarization, etc etc etc. The list could go on for pages.


    Note: I didn't proofread. If there's a mistake I'll edit it out
    "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." : Stephen King

    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto." Thomas Jefferson

  10. #120
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    Other: It was never a free nation and is not a free nation now. The idea of a "free nation" is more of an oxymoron than any reachable truth. There has not been one state, that I can think of off the top of my head, that I would assign the term "free". I guess, if you wanted an answer to it, the US was the "most free" under the Articles of Confederation however there are very obvious objections to the ie slavery (duh) and very limited voting rights.

    To go through all the periods and why I would not consider them free:

    Revolution to Civil War: I answered part above. Another example would be the Alien and Sedition Acts. Very unfree idea. Jackson's Trail of Tears idea certainly is not something that comes to mind when talking about freedom. High tariffs were also prominent in this period. Economic freedom is just as important as social and political freedom

    Civil War to WWI: very pro-business government. Workers lived in **** conditions until the progressives who were also filled with eugenicists. WWI was not something that I would consider a war congruent with defense. There's evidence that we were warned that the Lusitania was going down but WW did nothing. Also saw the introduction of the Fed in this period. Poor idea from the jump. Another war was the Spanish-American (Imperialist) conflict where we siezed the Phillipines. Empires are never free. Still poor voting rights (women).

    WWI to Civil Rights: Well Keynes happened in here. He certainly wasn't a champion of economic freedom. Cold War was here too. Too much propaganda to know left from right. And of course, social freedom was limited until the Civil Rights movement which I will admit was a bright spot in American History. We at least tried to get something right; get a single, quiet clap for that one. Can't forget the Red Scare and how that really narrowed down journalism with the blacklisting and such. Vietnam, Korea, every other conflict we were entangled in unnecessarily. Not free if you ask me

    Today: HAHAHAHAHA. You made a funny I like you. I will only write three specific pieces of legislation to make my case here: "Patriot" Act, Bush's "Constitution free zones", and NDAA2012-present. Of course there are other examples I can think of including but certainly not limited to the continued use of Gitmo, domestic surveillance, police militarization, etc etc etc. The list could go on for pages.


    Note: I didn't proofread. If there's a mistake I'll edit it out
    Except that NOW, LGBT's no longer have to hide in the closet or get fired or beaten or worse. NOW - and since the Civil Rights Act - blacks and other nonwhites are no longer subject to Jim Crow. NOW, women are more likely to be paid equal wages for equal work...but the Right is still putting the kibosh on anything legal to back that up. NOW, one doesn't get thrown in jail just for saying that we shouldn't be at war with whatever nation we're attacking. And if you think that the police are more violent now than at any time before the 1970's, you've got a LOT of history-learnin' to do.

    Don't get me wrong - our privacy is very much at stake, Gitmo (thanks to the Republicans in the House who won't let them go) is a perversion of American values, and there's the whole laundry list of other problems to which you alluded (not the least of which is our prison population). But right now, a greater percentage of Americans are freer than ever before.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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