View Poll Results: When was America most free as a nation?

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  • Between the end of the Revolutionary War and the start of the Civil War?

    18 27.69%
  • Between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of World War One?

    3 4.62%
  • Between the end of WWI and the passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    4 6.15%
  • Today, including the time after passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    40 61.54%
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Thread: When was America most free as a nation?

  1. #91
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Make marijuana legal for adults and I'll say now.
    We're getting there. BTW, you know it's YOUR side that's trying to stop legalization of marijuana. Maybe you should think about which side is more about freedom, and which side is more about enforcing their particular brand of morality on the rest of us. From the Denver Post:

    According to a Denver Post analysis of data provided by the Colorado Judicial Branch, the number of cases filed in state court alleging at least one marijuana offense plunged 77 percent between 2012 and 2013. The decline is most notable for charges of petty marijuana possession, which dropped from an average of 714 per month during the first nine months of 2012 to 133 per month during the same period in 2013 — a decline of 81 percent.

    That may have been expected — after all, people over 21 can now legally possess up to an ounce of marijuana. But The Post's analysis shows state prosecutors also pursued far fewer cases for marijuana crimes that remain illegal in Colorado.

    For instance, charges for possessing more than 12 ounces of marijuana dropped by 73 percent, and cases alleging possession with intent to distribute fewer than 5 pounds of marijuana dipped by 70 percent. Even charges for public consumption of marijuana fell statewide, by 17 percent, although Denver police have increased their number of citations issued for public consumption.

    ...

    Marijuana advocates, meanwhile, praised the drop in prosecutions — even for things that remain illegal under state law — because it lessens what they say is the racially biased impact of marijuana enforcement. A report last year from the American Civil Liberties Union found that blacks in Colorado were arrested for marijuana crimes at a rate nearly double that of whites. Overall, the report found arrests for marijuana possession in 2010 made up more than 60 percent of all drug-offense arrests.

    "We're talking about not only saving the state time and money," said Art Way, a policy manager in Colorado for the Drug Policy Alliance, a supporter of legalization, "but we're no longer criminalizing primarily young adults, black and brown males primarily, with the collateral consequences of a drug charge."
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  2. #92
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    We're getting there. BTW, you know it's YOUR side that's trying to stop legalization of marijuana. Maybe you should think about which side is more about freedom, and which side is more about enforcing their particular brand of morality on the rest of us. From the Denver Post:

    According to a Denver Post analysis of data provided by the Colorado Judicial Branch, the number of cases filed in state court alleging at least one marijuana offense plunged 77 percent between 2012 and 2013. The decline is most notable for charges of petty marijuana possession, which dropped from an average of 714 per month during the first nine months of 2012 to 133 per month during the same period in 2013 — a decline of 81 percent.

    That may have been expected — after all, people over 21 can now legally possess up to an ounce of marijuana. But The Post's analysis shows state prosecutors also pursued far fewer cases for marijuana crimes that remain illegal in Colorado.

    For instance, charges for possessing more than 12 ounces of marijuana dropped by 73 percent, and cases alleging possession with intent to distribute fewer than 5 pounds of marijuana dipped by 70 percent. Even charges for public consumption of marijuana fell statewide, by 17 percent, although Denver police have increased their number of citations issued for public consumption.

    ...

    Marijuana advocates, meanwhile, praised the drop in prosecutions — even for things that remain illegal under state law — because it lessens what they say is the racially biased impact of marijuana enforcement. A report last year from the American Civil Liberties Union found that blacks in Colorado were arrested for marijuana crimes at a rate nearly double that of whites. Overall, the report found arrests for marijuana possession in 2010 made up more than 60 percent of all drug-offense arrests.

    "We're talking about not only saving the state time and money," said Art Way, a policy manager in Colorado for the Drug Policy Alliance, a supporter of legalization, "but we're no longer criminalizing primarily young adults, black and brown males primarily, with the collateral consequences of a drug charge."
    "My side"? I don't have a side.

  3. #93
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    "My side"? I don't have a side.
    "Conservative". That's on your profile.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  4. #94
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    "Conservative". That's on your profile.
    I don't know any conservatives who think something different than I do. All of my conservative friends also want pot to be legalized for adults. I'm not on a side. It's not a contest.

  5. #95
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Maybe you should think about which side is more about freedom
    When was America most free as a nation?-4837784-_adf5c32c6fd58bd145eea3ee53a582f1-jpg
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  6. #96
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Between the end of the Revolution and TR administration women were considered second class citizens and didn't have the right to vote. Is that your idea of freedom?
    Nevertheless, women in America achieved more as women than any other culture the world has ever known. And because we were free, we could petition our government for redress of grievances and to change the law where it needed to be changed. That also was rare before there was a USA. And the law did change. Just because everything wasn't perfect and just because there were problems to be solved does not change the fact that the nation the Founders gave us was the most free, most creative, most innovative, most productive, most prosperous, and most generous that the world has ever known.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #97
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I don't know any conservatives who think something different than I do. All of my conservative friends also want pot to be legalized for adults. I'm not on a side. It's not a contest.
    REALLY???? All your conservative friends want pot to be legalized for adults? ALL of them? Well, you DO live in New England. But let's see what the numbers say, shall we?

    This Gallup poll says only 34% of conservatives and 35% of Republicans support legalization (as opposed to 69% of liberals)...

    ...but that poll is three years old. Let's look at some newer ones.

    At the 2014 CPAC, 41% of Republicans supported legalization for all uses (and I assume that means by adults), while 52% said that they either supported it for medical uses or that it should remain illegal altogether.

    Here's what a poll said about the opinion of Texas conservatives this past March:

    Overall, 23 percent of Texas voters think that marijuana should be illegal in all circumstances, but opposition grows to 32 percent when we focus on Republican voters. Conversely, 77 percent of liberals think that small or large amounts of marijuana should be made legal for any purpose, but among conservatives, that support drops to 35 percent. Add the 32 percent of conservatives who would only legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes, and you see that the majority of the voters who drive elections in Texas remain clear-eyed in their opposition to recreational pot use.

    But that's conservatives down in Texas, and they've often got a different outlook than conservatives up in New England, right? So here's what a poll found a few days ago in New York:

    Support for recreational marijuana is also divided among political party lines. Democrats favor legalization by 62-32 percent and independent voters approve of it by 53-42 percent. Republicans polled, however, oppose it by 69-28 percent.

    However, support for medical marijuana was strong for both parties. Republicans favor it by 74-23 percent, while Democrats are in favor by 87-12 percent.


    So maybe all your personal conservative friends do support legalization for recreational purposes...but you and your friends are in the significant minority of conservatives overall, regardless of where you live. And then there's the small matter that there are precisely ZERO red states that are even seriously considering legalization.

    So...yeah, it IS your side that's holding back legalization of marijuana for adults for recreational purposes. I've got no doubt that this will change, that support on your side will grow as the years pass - and more quickly than many expect. But for right now...no. There's too many old people driving your side's policies.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  8. #98
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    When was America most free as a nation?-4837784-_adf5c32c6fd58bd145eea3ee53a582f1-jpg
    And every single American conservative who complains that America's a tyranny now...has no clue what a tyranny is. Maybe y'all should read some history, familiarize yourselves with life under REAL tyrannies, and then sit down with a beer and think to yourself if we're living in a tyranny.

    When you can go almost anywhere you want and do almost anything you want (with almost anyone you want)...you're NOT living in a tyranny. For every single thing you can think of (that's not obviously felonious or stupidly dangerous) that you can't do, I can give you many, many examples of things you CAN do...

    ...and that is never, ever the case in a tyranny.

    So...do yourself a favor and get away from the hyperbole - it doesn't reflect well on you.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #99
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And every single American conservative who complains that America's a tyranny now...has no clue what a tyranny is. Maybe y'all should read some history, familiarize yourselves with life under REAL tyrannies, and then sit down with a beer and think to yourself if we're living in a tyranny.

    When you can go almost anywhere you want and do almost anything you want (with almost anyone you want)...you're NOT living in a tyranny. For every single thing you can think of (that's not obviously felonious or stupidly dangerous) that you can't do, I can give you many, many examples of things you CAN do...

    ...and that is never, ever the case in a tyranny.

    So...do yourself a favor and get away from the hyperbole - it doesn't reflect well on you.
    I guess you can say that I'm guilty of hyperbole, but you completely dodged the point about both sides opposing freedoms that the other side supports.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  10. #100
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    Re: When was America most free as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    I guess you can say that I'm guilty of hyperbole, but you completely dodged the point about both sides opposing freedoms that the other side supports.
    Yeah, one side believes that freedom from discrimination is a right...while the other side seems to believe that freedom to discriminate is a right. At least that's what I gathered from my (quite unscientific) poll here on DP, where the "right to discriminate" was vociferously defended by those on the right...and ONLY those on the right.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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