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Should door to door mail delivery end?

What do you think of the new Post Office proposal?

  • Total voters
    51
  • Poll closed .
This plan would put a lot of mail carriers out of a job and it would cause a lot of disabled and elderly citizens trouble. It might sound easy to you to get up and drive somewhere to get your mail, but for disabled people and senior citizens and even people without jobs it's a huge pain. There are people who rely on the post office, and I think we should give them more time to try to turn things around.

Also, the post office can deliver your mail faster and more efficiently than UPS or Fed Ex. I think that's ironic. Private companies can do it, everybody says. Actually, they already do it and they're pretty awful at it.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
That has happened to me a few times. It still puzzles the heck out of me. :thinking
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From the following article :

Del Polito explains that "there was a time when you would hear concerns from FedEx and UPS that the Postal Service was unfairly competing against them, but now you will hear they are 'partners' because they have figured out how to get good value out of a set-up that makes sense for them."

The arrangement does make sense for FedEx and UPS, from an operational and economic standpoint. Interestingly, a purely competitive structure wouldn't work, as FedEx and UPS don't want the responsibilities that they would be saddled with if the playing field were perfectly level.

Here's Lauren T. Andrews, writing in the William & Mary Business Law Review:

For example, the USPS is charged by governmental decree with providing universal service to all parts of the country, even in areas that may not be profitable. Private companies, on the other hand, can essentially ignore and avoid areas that may not be profitable, areas where they may otherwise be forced to serve if the postal monopolies were lifted and regulations put in place.

Furthermore, companies such as UPS and FedEx would likely have no interest in the delivery of "letters," primarily because it is not as profitable as larger parcel and package delivery.

In fact, a UPS Spokesman, Norman Black, stated, "We believe that the government plays a role in terms of ensuring that every mailbox is reached every day …. That is not a responsibility that UPS would want."

And, not only would they not want it, David Hendel says they couldn't do it.



"Neither FedEx or UPS are even in the same league as the Postal Service, which goes to 100 million addresses every day," he tells me. "What they do, they do well. But they don't do what the Postal Service does."
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Read more: Why FedEx And UPS Want The Postal Service To Survive | Editor's Pick | Minyanville's Wall Street
 
Cephus said:
No it's not, I had it for years, back in the day, and it was no more expensive than anything else. It's horrible for online gaming, but for general usage, it's just one more option. It's often offered by satellite companies and if you already have a dish on the roof, there very few start up costs.
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Interesting. You either had the Nordstrom's of internet service already, or found Billy Bob's Discount Satellite & Taxidermy Emporium. When I checked into it, about 10 years ago, it was 3x anything else.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
That has happened to me a few times. It still puzzles the heck out of me. :thinking
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It's called SmartPost. It originates from the shipper to FedEx, and then FedEx tenders the package to the USPS (either your local post office, or your closest General Mail Facility). The Post Office then delivers it to you.

Honestly, I think it's laughable how everyone is saying that the USPS is more efficient and timely than FedEx or UPS. Compared to either private company, the USPS is a big joke. They don't give you a guaranteed delivery date on anything you ship, and their tracking ability is extremely spotty, on it's best day. I do a lot of online shopping around the holidays, and I always hate it when I know that my packages will either be delivered USPS, or SmartPost. I'd rather pay a little more and be able to completely track my package, from start to finish, and not be wondering where the package is, or why it is late. I had 2 packages last Christmas - my last 2 - that the Post Office had absolutely no idea where they were. According to the "tracking system" they had, the package should have been at my door on Friday. I started calling Friday evening, after my regular mail delivery. Their response was, "Well that's not an accurate delivery date." My response? "Well, duh. My mail has already ran, my package is not here." For both packages, even though they were supposed to have been delivered on Friday, I got one the following Wednesday and the other the following Saturday.

If you aren't going to be accurate, why bother?
 
radcen said:
Oh, but you don't understand. Because it's available, that is enough.

According to some.
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No, its simply an option which proves there are many. The purpose of govt is to secure rights, not to deliver things.
 
jonny5 said:
No, its simply an option which proves there are many. The purpose of govt is to secure rights, not to deliver things.
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The Post Office is one of those things that is clearly identifiable in the constitution. You can argue about some government services but there really is no way to argue that one. The Constitution is very specific about a post office.
 
Gina said:
I've been reading about this for years. Here is a succinct overview and while I have read more than one story reflecting this information, if someone has something to counter this, please post it up.

Here are the facts:

In 2006, Congress passed legislation that required USPS to pre-fund – within 10 years – most retiree healthcare benefits for the next 75 years. It was an accounting gimmick adopted to comply with short-term budget scoring rules that applied to legislation at the time. The resulting annual payments have cost the Postal Service $31 billion, accounting for more than 80 percent of its red ink since 2007.
The Postal Service is the only U.S. institution – private or public – that is required by law to set aside money for future retiree health benefits. Some private sector businesses choose to do so, but at much lower levels than the congressional mandate for USPS. The Postal Service already has set aside $45 billion for future retiree health benefits – more than any other organization in America and enough to pay for decades of future retiree healthcare. In addition, Postal Service pension funds are overfunded by tens of billions of dollars.

As a direct result of the pre-funding mandate, the Postal Service has reached its debt limit. In 2005, before pre-funding, USPS was debt free. Today, it holds $15 billion in debt – all of which is traceable to the congressional accounting gimmick.

- See more at: Debunking the Postal Service
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The government should provide essential services when the commercial sector can not, or will not, provide them to everyone. Alternately, they can require that the commercial sector provide the service to everyone on an an equal basis. That is why it is usually government that provides water and sewer service where it is needed and why the telephone and electric power companies are required to provide service to everyone, even when it is not profitable. Mail delivery is still an essential service for everyone at times.

The pressure to privatize government services mostly comes from those who hope to profit from taking over the business. They have allies ready to support their most sleazy schemes amongst those idealogues who hate the idea of government services, don't care about equality for all, hate labor unions, and want to see government made weak and ineffective.

The recent history of the postal service is a case-book example of how the privatization forces work. First they create unnecessary rules or cut the budget of the service until it is crippled, then they promote the idea that the private sector can do it better, and then they use the fact that the service has been crippled as an argument for its elimination. They try to do this at a slow enough rate so that most people won't even notice it is happening.



"Facing a deficit of billions of dollars in recent years, the United States Postal Service (USPS) has floated a number of proposals to reduce that deficit, including selling off hundreds of post office properties in order to gain cash flow and reduce expenses. According to the Postal Service's 2012 report to Congress, more than 600 buildings nationwide have been "earmarked for disposal," and the "USPS Properties for Sale" web site currently lists 40 buildings and land parcels for sale across the U.S.

In 2011, the CB Richard Ellis Group (now CBRE Group, Inc.), the world's largest commercial real estate
services firm, was awarded an exclusive contract to market USPS facilities which provides CBRE with a commission of 2 to 6 percent on the sale of those properties. This award has been the subject of some controversy, as CBRE's Chairman of the Board is Richard C. Blum, the husband of Senator Dianne Feinstein, who represents the state of California in the U.S. Senate.

It isn't accurate to say that Richard Blum is "solely in charge" of CBRE or that he "owns" the company, as CBRE is headed by President and Chief Executive Officer Robert E. Sulentic is a public company whose shares are owned by many different individuals and institutional stockholders. However, it is indeed true that Richard Blum is both CBRE's chairman and the husband of a U.S. senator, and that Blum Capital, a private equity firm founded by Richard Blum, is one of CBRE's larger institutional stockholders.

Writing in the San Francisco Chronicle, columnist Andrew S. Ross quoted a representative of Senator Feinstein as asserting that she was not involved in her husband's business dealings, and that the contract between the USPS and CBRE was not initiated or influenced by Congress....

In June 2013 the USPS' Office of Inspector General issued an audit report which noted that "outsourcing real estate management services to one supplier is a fundamental change from how the Postal Service previously managed its real estate portfolio" and was critical of several aspects of the contract between USPS and CBRE, but Richard Blum's marital relationship with Senator Feinstein was not among the conflict of interest issues cited in that report..."Read more at snopes.com: CBRE/Richard Blum and USPS
 
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Superfly said:
It's called SmartPost. It originates from the shipper to FedEx, and then FedEx tenders the package to the USPS (either your local post office, or your closest General Mail Facility). The Post Office then delivers it to you.

Honestly, I think it's laughable how everyone is saying that the USPS is more efficient and timely than FedEx or UPS. Compared to either private company, the USPS is a big joke. They don't give you a guaranteed delivery date on anything you ship, and their tracking ability is extremely spotty, on it's best day. I do a lot of online shopping around the holidays, and I always hate it when I know that my packages will either be delivered USPS, or SmartPost. I'd rather pay a little more and be able to completely track my package, from start to finish, and not be wondering where the package is, or why it is late. I had 2 packages last Christmas - my last 2 - that the Post Office had absolutely no idea where they were. According to the "tracking system" they had, the package should have been at my door on Friday. I started calling Friday evening, after my regular mail delivery. Their response was, "Well that's not an accurate delivery date." My response? "Well, duh. My mail has already ran, my package is not here." For both packages, even though they were supposed to have been delivered on Friday, I got one the following Wednesday and the other the following Saturday.

If you aren't going to be accurate, why bother?
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I read an article sometime last year about how the USPS, FedEx, and UPS are actually very inter-dependent on each other. I don't have a link handy, but it was quite an interesting read.
 
Superfly said:
Honestly, I think it's laughable how everyone is saying that the USPS is more efficient and timely than FedEx or UPS. Compared to either private company, the USPS is a big joke. They don't give you a guaranteed delivery date on anything you ship, and their tracking ability is extremely spotty, on it's best day. I do a lot of online shopping around the holidays, and I always hate it when I know that my packages will either be delivered USPS, or SmartPost. I'd rather pay a little more and be able to completely track my package, from start to finish, and not be wondering where the package is, or why it is late. I had 2 packages last Christmas - my last 2 - that the Post Office had absolutely no idea where they were. According to the "tracking system" they had, the package should have been at my door on Friday. I started calling Friday evening, after my regular mail delivery. Their response was, "Well that's not an accurate delivery date." My response? "Well, duh. My mail has already ran, my package is not here." For both packages, even though they were supposed to have been delivered on Friday, I got one the following Wednesday and the other the following Saturday.

If you aren't going to be accurate, why bother?
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I think we are comparing the prices of sending an one page letter. I once sent a one page letter to an organization via Fed Ex overnight delivery. It costed me $19. I could have sent the same letter via the post office for $0.46. It would have taken 3-4 days.

I don't think anybody would argue that the USPS is superior to Fed Ex. It costed me 43 times more to send that letter through FEdEx. I received impeccable service but was it 43 times better than the USPS? No.

The Post Office by far provides the better value.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
I think we are comparing the prices of sending an one page letter. I once sent a one page letter to an organization via Fed Ex overnight delivery. It costed me $19. I could have sent the same letter via the post office for $0.46. It would have taken 3-4 days.

I don't think anybody would argue that the USPS is superior to Fed Ex. It costed me 43 times more to send that letter through FEdEx. I received impeccable service but was it 43 times better than the USPS? No.

The Post Office by far provides the better value.
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But the huge difference in your scenario here is that you are comparing overnight delivery via FedEx to 3 to 4 day delivery via USPS. Of course it's going to cost you a lot more. Get back to me with a price for the USPS to deliver an overnight letter. Oh wait -- they don't deliver overnight letters. :lol: The best they offer is 3 to 4 days, and even then, they don't guarantee it.
 
Superfly said:
But the huge difference in your scenario here is that you are comparing overnight delivery via FedEx to 3 to 4 day delivery via USPS. Of course it's going to cost you a lot more. Get back to me with a price for the USPS to deliver an overnight letter. Oh wait -- they don't deliver overnight letters. :lol: The best they offer is 3 to 4 days, and even then, they don't guarantee it.
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Nobody will argue with you. FedEx is much better. There is no contest.

It's like comparing a rib eye steak that cost $500 to a $1 hamburger at McDonald's. The $500 rib eye steak is much better.

Nobody is arguing with your point. You are just ignoring the comments that the USPS provides better value.
 
MaggieD said:
I love that plan. It only makes sense. They're already doing it all over Illinois in attached-housing subdivisions. The idea that, in this day and age, a mail person will walk down a block and walk up and down the steps to every porch to put mail in a mailbox is ridiculous.
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Tell that to the elderly who cannot move well, and get their medications in their mailboxes...
 
Lachean said:
First of all you've got your price WAY off:
View attachment 67166917
Second of all, the only reason the USPS can charge $.46 is because they're subsidized, hence the LOSSES.
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The USPS is not subsidized one bit at all. They are non-profit, and pay for themselves, with shipping fee revenues. The only reason they are operating in the Red is because of what congress already did to them, extorting money from them.
 
MaggieD said:
Doesn't take long:

The Post Office IS Subsidized | Stossel's Take Blog | Stossel | Fox Business

From November 2012:



U.S. Postal Service back for record $14 billion subsidy - Tampa Bay Tampa Top News | Examiner.com
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Those are BS for the fact that this is simply money the USPS is not able to prefund their future obligations. No other government entity is required to prefund their future accounts.

The same time congress required this 75 billion(?) fund to be paid for in 7 years, they confiscated all the money the USPS had already saved in accounts for the future. This mandated money is not even going anyplace, but the general fund. Congress is effectively mandating that the USPS buy bonds for the future, but it isn't even that good. This is a debt that the treasury will have to future retirees, that they can hide off the books.

Don't blame the USPS for any of this. Congress is just playing another shell game with national debt.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
If congress wouldn't let the Post Office stop Saturday deliveries then why would they stop rural deliveries? This is a fun topic to discuss but nothing is changing any time soon. This should be self evident.
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Congress will only do the things that make it look like it's the USPS' fault. One theory is they are trying to break the USPS, and turn it over to crony business friends.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Nobody will argue with you. FedEx is much better. There is no contest.

It's like comparing a rib eye steak that cost $500 to a $1 hamburger at McDonald's. The $500 rib eye steak is much better.

Nobody is arguing with your point. You are just ignoring the comments that the USPS provides better value.
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I'm not saying it doesn't provide a better value, but you are comparing apples to oranges here, or, as you said, a steak to a hamburger.

You can't compare 3 to 4 day delivery to overnight delivery. There is absolutely no comparison. It would have made much more sense to get the price from FedEx for 3 to 4 day delivery and then compare that price to the price charged by the USPS. It wouldn't be "OMG IT'S 43 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE TO SHIP FEDEX" so you wouldn't have really hammered home the point that you were trying to make.

FedEx ground, shipping from one side of the country (East coast) to the other (West coast), trackable - is $8.91, and the package will be there in 4 days.

The USPS option is $5.05 for Priority Mail, which is not really trackable, but gives you confirmation when the delivery is complete. If you need tracking, you can only get that with Express mail, and that is $18.

So there's no way to really compare the two.
 
Every single time the post office had competition it got its ass handed to it in either mail or package delivery. Besides it being a welfare type program for the poor it doesn't seem to serve any purpose whatsoever.
 
Superfly said:
I'm not saying it doesn't provide a better value, but you are comparing apples to oranges here, or, as you said, a steak to a hamburger.

You can't compare 3 to 4 day delivery to overnight delivery. There is absolutely no comparison. It would have made much more sense to get the price from FedEx for 3 to 4 day delivery and then compare that price to the price charged by the USPS. It wouldn't be "OMG IT'S 43 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE TO SHIP FEDEX" so you wouldn't have really hammered home the point that you were trying to make.

FedEx ground, shipping from one side of the country (East coast) to the other (West coast), trackable - is $8.91, and the package will be there in 4 days.

The USPS option is $5.05 for Priority Mail, which is not really trackable, but gives you confirmation when the delivery is complete. If you need tracking, you can only get that with Express mail, and that is $18.

So there's no way to really compare the two.
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I use both services, depending on costs and my needs.

If I need tracking I use FedEx. (UPS is even more expensive for the same thing, and doesn't do any better.)

If tracking isn't important, I use USPS because it's cheaper. And I don't care what anybody says, my experiences regarding reliability has been similar for all of them.

USPS's delivery confirmation has always been hit-and-miss. They now claims to have real-time tracking as of several months ago, but I'm still skeptical. This is where USPS falls down, IMO. Customers want and expect real-time tracking now, and USPS fights it tooth-and-nail.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The USPS is not subsidized one bit at all. They are non-profit, and pay for themselves, with shipping fee revenues. The only reason they are operating in the Red is because of what congress already did to them, extorting money from them.
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In fact they are subsidized. Read their financials where they get a few billion a year in capital investments (property gifts). Then theres the more indirect subsidies.

The Post Office wasn't happy with my recent post, "Obama's Post Office Mistake." A spokesman sent me a letter claiming that: "The Postal Service is not government subsidized. The last time the Postal Service received taxpayer money for its operation was 1982."

Well, that’s true but mostly not true. Not paying parking tickets and monopoly powers are certainly a form of subsidy. In addition, The Post Office doesn't have to pay state or local taxes, and it gets to borrow billions from the government at reduced rates ($10.2 billion, by the end of this year, according to the GAO.) Last year, the FTC found that the Post Office received implicit subsidies of $34 to $117 million -- and that's not counting the monopoly, its biggest benefit.

When we confronted the Post Office spokesman about that, he admitted that they received those subsidies, but added: "the government gives, but it also takes away. On the negative side, because of the responsibilities given to us by the law, we show a net loss [in terms of subsidies.]"
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The Post Office IS Subsidized | Stossel's Take Blog | Stossel | Fox Business
 
radcen said:
I use both services, depending on costs and my needs.

If I need tracking I use FedEx. (UPS is even more expensive for the same thing, and doesn't do any better.)

If tracking isn't important, I use USPS because it's cheaper. And I don't care what anybody says, my experiences regarding reliability has been similar for all of them.

USPS's delivery confirmation has always been hit-and-miss. They now claims to have real-time tracking as of several months ago, but I'm still skeptical. This is where USPS falls down, IMO. Customers want and expect real-time tracking now, and USPS fights it tooth-and-nail.
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Exactly.

They fight it because they are unreliable. I honestly believe that. If they guarantee you that a package will be there by a certain time, it absolutely has to be there by a certain time. They have, for 200 years, been around, and that's great, but you just can't rely on them for anything that's truly important. My best friend used to be a postal worker, and they just have this culture of indifference about them, that it doesn't really matter because they are going to be around, no matter whether they can get a simple delivery there, on time, or not. :shrug:
 
Superfly said:
Exactly.

They fight it because they are unreliable. I honestly believe that. If they guarantee you that a package will be there by a certain time, it absolutely has to be there by a certain time. They have, for 200 years, been around, and that's great, but you just can't rely on them for anything that's truly important. My best friend used to be a postal worker, and they just have this culture of indifference about them, that it doesn't really matter because they are going to be around, no matter whether they can get a simple delivery there, on time, or not. :shrug:
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Bingo! Agree completely.

I also believe that guaranteeing anything would require them to change their mindset... their "culture of indifference" (I like that) as you call it... and they simply don't want to do that. Have you even been to the PO and notice how quiet and slow things move in the back? They'd have to move faster and with purpose and urgency.
 
Hard Truth said:
People in rural areas without broadband who lose their mail service won't be able to get their netflix DVDs, magazines, newspapers, catalogs, voter information packets, packages etc. because the commercial delivery services will not find it profitable to deliver to such areas and a telephone modem is too slow. The postal service is required to deliver to everyone and that requirement makes it a tool for effective democracy. If the rest of us ever experience lengthy power outages or loss of broadband due to sabotage, war or disaster we will be glad to have a backup system.
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As a 'people in the rural areas' allow me a few words...

In the event of power outages, war and the like the mail service gets compromised as well- tornadoes, floods and ice storms block roads as well as cause power outages- ask me how I know....

Most of us go to town at least once a week- mail can be picked up at the post office. People without broadband are not without a way to get to a 'red box' and rent the movie (I hear tell some even borrow burned copies...shhhhhhhh)

I can tell you this much- we who live out past pizza delivery accept many things as part of that, mainly no pizza delivery!!!!! :2razz:

Run out of milk, better keep at least a half tank of fuel in the vehicle- have a list for what you need in town, you ain't going back if you forgot something. Don't know about the rural you live in but the rural I live in has broadband and even internet via satellite. We have things like generators and chainsaws, 4 wheel drives and tractors... but what we don't have and really don't need is someone making it sound like we can't drive to town for a pizza and our mail....

Thank you, and please refrain from including all of us in your 'concern'... :peace
 
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