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Are Cops Too Militarized?

Are police units going too far by being overly militarized?

  • Total voters
    55
Peter King said:
I have to disagree, the safety of police officers is more important than a lot of other things, the rights or criminals to not be swamped by heavily armed police for example. If the police fear there is a reasonable risk for fatalities or injury on the side of the police officers or the public from armed criminals, then I choose the protection of the police and the public rather than the rights of the suspect.
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I have to disagree with your preference of their lives over our rights. They cannot LEGALLY violate my rights, the defense of our rights is the very purpose of Government and they chose a risky job to protect and serve US.

I value freedom over lives. People died for our rights, we do not give them up in the (false) hope of saving a few. To do so would dishonor, even piss on the graves of, our forefathers and their sacrifices.
 
haymarket said:
Relating history is not playing any blame game. Its just telling the truth.
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Obviously you are trying to blame one side of the political spectrum for wasteful spending and mismanagement of taxpayer dollars. :roll: It's more a systemic thing where the entire government is incompetent to a ridiculous degree.
 
Caine said:
I disagree with your assessment.

My assessment is noted in the first two lines of post #61
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Here is one example of my claim

Thinning blue line: Police cuts cripple cities

and another

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-08-25-1Anresponsecops25_ST_N.htm?csp=34

and this

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/29/AR2010092907702.html

and this

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2014/jan/21/memphis-police-director-says-further-cuts-could/

and this
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/us/after-deep-police-cuts-sacramento-sees-rise-in-crime.html

If you need, I will be happy to provide you with more. And do you think it is merely a coincidence that the very increase in weaponry is happening now?
 
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haymarket said:
So name calling makes you feel better about yourself?
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As if you aren't constantly insulting people. Just look how you close this post... I swear this is taking candy from a baby. At least when I call you a Tory, I'm being accurate. Your insults are baseless.

haymarket said:
You on the far right of the libertarian strain of 'thought' use the word FREEDOM or LIBERTY
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There is no "far right" to Libertarianism, nor are there degrees of Libertarianism or "Pure Libertarians." Being a libertarian is like being pregnant, either you are or you aren't.

Either you accept the non-aggression principle and self-ownership or you don't.

haymarket said:
the way a lounge lizard uses the word LOVE to the last woman at the bar 15 minutes before closing. And your goal is exactly the same.
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Oh look, name calling and insults... hypocrite.
 
Lachean said:
As if you aren't constantly insulting people. Just look how you close this post... I swear this is taking candy from a baby. At least when I call you a Tory, I'm being accurate. Your insults are baseless.



There is no "far right" to Libertarianism, nor are there degrees of Libertarianism or "Pure Libertarians." Being a libertarian is like being pregnant, either you are or you aren't.

Either you accept the non-aggression principle and self-ownership or you don't.



Oh look, name calling and insults... hypocrite.
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When I see your name and see you reproduce some of my words as a lead in I know with 100% accuracy there will be be substance in your post and only personal vitriol. thank you for confirming this fact yet again.

btw - comparing your use of language designed to seduce the American people to a lounge lizard trying to seduce a woman at a bar is not name calling. It is simply an accurate comparison of similar tactics. You may want to brush up on those sort of things in the future.
 
Peter King said:
Obviously you are living in a distant past when the times were "much more simple". In this day and age you can be shot with an uzi if you go to a car to give them a speeding ticket, you can be sprayed with countless of bullets from an AK47 when you go to house because of a noise complaint. Gangs, huge spread of heavy weaponry, people with whole stock piles of weapons, extremist groups with no respect for authorities whatsoever, etc. etc. etc.
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Clearly you have never read the FBI crime stat's that track such things. The VAST MAJORITY of crimes involving guns are with handguns. PERIOD. The number that are committed with 'assault rifles' is almost insignificant in terms of total shootings.

Had you read such data and knew it, you would not make statements like above.
 
Lachean said:
Which I understood, hence the "They can"



You talking about "juking the stats"?

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Exactly.

I've had Investigators in the division I work with quit their position and go back to Patrol because they were being pressured to turn higher level crimes into lower levels crimes, as well as confront homeowners to admit that they falsely reported a burglary with absolutely no evidence that this false reporting was true.

I've seen Patrol Division Commanders get removed/replaced for refusing to change reports or consolidate multiple crimes into one. For example a neighborhood street getting hit up with car break ins. Officers come out and take reports, the car break in reports should be separate incidents but they are consolidated into one report and counted as ONE car break in instead of SEVEN.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/n...nipulates-crime-reports-study-finds.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/n...-hospitalized-got-no-apology-just-a-bill.html
 
haymarket said:
When I see your name and see you reproduce some of my words as a lead in I know with 100% accuracy there will be be substance in your post and only personal vitriol. thank you for confirming this fact yet again.

btw - comparing your use of language designed to seduce the American people to a lounge lizard trying to seduce a woman at a bar is not name calling. It is simply an accurate comparison of similar tactics. You may want to brush up on those sort of things in the future.
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:lamo

Its clear you've got nothing, and have resorted to your ole shtick.
 
Caine said:
Exactly.

I've had Investigators in the division I work with quit their position and go back to Patrol because they were being pressured to turn higher level crimes into lower levels crimes, as well as confront homeowners to admit that they falsely reported a burglary with absolutely no evidence that this false reporting was true.

I've seen Patrol Division Commanders get removed/replaced for refusing to change reports or consolidate multiple crimes into one. For example a neighborhood street getting hit up with car break ins. Officers come out and take reports, the car break in reports should be separate incidents but they are consolidated into one report and counted as ONE car break in instead of SEVEN.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/n...nipulates-crime-reports-study-finds.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/n...-hospitalized-got-no-apology-just-a-bill.html
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While I do not doubt that juking the stats occurs, do you doubt that violent crime has declined overall? That DC for example managed to get under 100 murders in a year?
 
Lachean said:
:lamo

Its clear you've got nothing, and have resorted to your ole shtick.
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When other posters who disagree with me on the issues single you out and tell you to basically shut up and move on with your personal axe and grind it somewhere else - you gotta know you just sank and drowned.
 
Lachean said:
I have to disagree with your preference of their lives over our rights. They cannot LEGALLY violate my rights, the defense of our rights is the very purpose of Government and they chose a risky job to protect and serve US.

I value freedom over lives. People died for our rights, we do not give them up in the (false) hope of saving a few. To do so would dishonor, even piss on the graves of, our forefathers and their sacrifices.
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Sorry, but I do not share your preference. They are there to protect and serve, not get killed due to not being protected enough themselves during their duties. If they have to arrest someone of whom they know that he owns a large stockpile of weapons then it would be foolish to not go in in a manner that protects the police officers and the public.

As said, in a nation with no large numbers of weapons in a lot of homes I would agree that militarization of the police is a bad thing, sadly in the US it is a necessary thing.
 
Lachean said:
While I do not doubt that juking the stats occurs, do you doubt that violent crime has declined overall? That DC for example managed to get under 100 murders in a year?
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I've seen this one in my old city too.

A missing person report which later turns out to be a murdered citizen, is often left reported as a missing person........
 
PoS said:
Seems every government agency and city now has a SWAT team. And SWAT activity has gone up by 1500% in the last two decades.

John W. Whitehead: SWAT Team Mania: The War Against the American Citizen
The United States of SWAT? | National Review Online

Police departments are now being given surplus military vehicles too to wage war war against its own citizens.

TN Police Departments Get Tank-Like Military Vehicles - NewsChannel5.com | Nashville News, Weather & Sports
Leftover armored trucks from Iraq coming to local police agencies - NY Daily News

SWAT teams now routinely use no-knock entry tactics and sometimes end up shooting innocent people when they enter the wrong house or due to faulty intel.

Jose Guerena shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Five Unnecessary SWAT Team Raids Gone Terribly Wrong
WND reports on SWAT raids on the innocent

Let us remember one thing, cops are not military personnel, they are classified as civilians, like everybody else who isnt military. Why should they be issued military weapons and dress like an army of occupation? Should something be done about this?

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This is the newest tool in the government arsenal to take down militia groups that resist capture and arrest.

TacArm at Trexpo East 2007 | BLUtube

 
Arbo said:
Clearly you have never read the FBI crime stat's that track such things. The VAST MAJORITY of crimes involving guns are with handguns. PERIOD. The number that are committed with 'assault rifles' is almost insignificant in terms of total shootings.

Had you read such data and knew it, you would not make statements like above.
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I am sorry, but using handguns does not save the life of an officer when he busts down a door to arrest a drug dealer.
 
Peter King said:
Sorry, but I do not share your preference.
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Yeah well, not everyone wants to be free.

Peter King said:
They are there to protect and serve, not get killed due to not being protected enough themselves during their duties. If they have to arrest someone of whom they know that he owns a large stockpile of weapons then it would be foolish to not go in in a manner that protects the police officers and the public.

As said, in a nation with no large numbers of weapons in a lot of homes I would agree that militarization of the police is a bad thing, sadly in the US it is a necessary thing.
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What part of falling violent crime statistics despite increases in gun ownership confuses you? How is it a necessary thing?
 
Caine said:
I've seen this one in my old city too.

A missing person report which later turns out to be a murdered citizen, is often left reported as a missing person........
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But do you doubt that violent crime is and has been on the decline?

Because I grew up in DC during the 80's "crack epidemic" then spent the past 10 years in Baltimore and despite how bad it was, I truly see it getting better.
 
Peter King said:
I am sorry, but using handguns does not save the life of an officer when he busts down a door to arrest a drug dealer.
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So what you are saying is "you are correct Arbo, I have not read the actual crime stats, so I will continue down my same old path no matter that reality differs from my opinion".

Thanks.
 
Lachean said:
What do you mean?
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I mean a person with several handguns can be just as dangerous to a police officer as a criminal with a heavier weapon.
 
Lachean said:
But do you doubt that violent crime is and has been on the decline?

Because I grew up in DC during the 80's "crack epidemic" then spent the past 10 years in Baltimore and despite how bad it was, I truly see it getting better.
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Is baltimore 'better'? I lived there early 90's, doing database work as well as working/drinking at hammerjacks. Was a fun city, and generally pretty safe if you avoided the wrong places. Sowebo was pretty bad back then. I was on light street.
 
Lachean said:
Okay then, OVERALL homicides a year?
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...Did you read the link? He's actually showing you that the simple act of striking down anti-gun measures didn't lower homicides. Actually, homicides weren't lowered at all. They were moved to a different jurisdiction. If that's how we're going to "lower" crime, we may as well move every trailer park and public housing area in the country to Easter Island and presto, no more crime.
 
Arbo said:
So what you are saying is "you are correct Arbo, I have not read the actual crime stats, so I will continue down my same old path no matter that reality differs from my opinion".

Thanks.
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No, you are wrong, I viewed the statistics before I first answered your question. But in the past I have also, in earlier discussions, compared crime statistics in the US to those in other industrialized countries and the number of murders as well as the insane number of people jailed in the US show that there is a problem with violence in the US. Without these militarized police units the violence might be much worse.

So please don't thank yourself for things that live only in your mind and not in reality.
 
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