View Poll Results: Are police units going too far by being overly militarized?

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    54 87.10%
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Thread: Are Cops Too Militarized?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post


    Of course the likes of you would support the militarization of the police and claim anyone else who isn't for is anti-law enforcement.
    What militarization of the police? The things discussed int he OP are for the most part keeping up with technology. are you against the police keeping up with technology?

    I suspect part of the reliance on more powerful equipment is the slavish campaign to reduce municipal budgets thereby costing police jobs and positions and the difference then has to be made up in equipment rather than bodies. And it was a right wing desire to slash taxes and government that was the impetus for this.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Seems every government agency and city now has a SWAT team. And SWAT activity has gone up by 1500% in the last two decades.

    John W. Whitehead: SWAT Team Mania: The War Against the American Citizen
    The United States of SWAT? | National Review Online

    Police departments are now being given surplus military vehicles too to wage war war against its own citizens.

    TN Police Departments Get Tank-Like Military Vehicles - NewsChannel5.com | Nashville News, Weather & Sports
    Leftover armored trucks from Iraq coming to local police agencies - NY Daily News

    SWAT teams now routinely use no-knock entry tactics and sometimes end up shooting innocent people when they enter the wrong house or due to faulty intel.

    Jose Guerena shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Five Unnecessary SWAT Team Raids Gone Terribly Wrong
    WND reports on SWAT raids on the innocent

    Let us remember one thing, cops are not military personnel, they are classified as civilians, like everybody else who isnt military. Why should they be issued military weapons and dress like an army of occupation? Should something be done about this?



    Whenever the military gets a new weapon or piece of hardware the police find an excuse to buy and use it for themselves. Which is strange because they are supposed to enforce the law not wage war.

    The purpose of the military is to fight the enemies of the state, the purpose of the police is to enforce the law which the people of the state are subject to. WHen the two entitites blend together the enemies of the state become the people of the state.

    To be fair it is not just militarized weapons and SWAT units which are the problem. The police are using intelligence gathering methods to keep track of people and their movements. These things are the result of too many laws which need to be enforced. While the funding for much of this hardware and intelligence gathering needs to be stopped the laws they are used for also need to be repealed. We need a few laws yes but nearly so many as we have now. We also need few police to enforce them.

    Are Cops Too Militarized?-wcciak8-jpgAre Cops Too Militarized?-wcciak8-jpg

  3. #23
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Cops are a para-military organization and have been since professionalized.
    Cops are civilians- you can call them para-quasi-neo military all you want but they are still civilians- what part of civilian do you not understand?

  4. #24
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Cops are civilians- you can call them para-quasi-neo military all you want but they are still civilians- what part of civilian do you not understand?
    The dictionary disagree with you. Every one I can find disagrees with you. Cops are not civilians.

    google search definition

    ci·vil·ian
    səˈvilyən/
    noun
    1.
    a person not in the armed services or the police force.
    synonyms: noncombatant, nonmilitary person, ordinary citizen, private citizen; More
    informal
    a person who is not a member of a particular profession or group, as viewed by a member of that group.
    "I talk to a lot of actresses and they say that civilians are scared of them"
    adjective
    adjective: civilian
    1.
    of, denoting, or relating to a person not belonging to the armed services or police.
    "military agents in civilian clothes"
    synonyms: noncombatant, nonmilitary person, ordinary citizen, private citizen; More
    from Merriam Webster dictionary


    ci·vil·ian noun \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\
    : a person who is not a member of the military or of a police or firefighting force
    I have provided many more in the past and could do so again for your continued edification and enlightenment.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    I blame the prevalence of guns in American society. The cops are decking themselves out in heavy-duty military gear because they expect (reasonably) to come under fire at some point.

    I think this is only a natural instinct -- the police are trying to protect themselves. It's a dangerous job in America, because (incredibly) you let anyone have deadly weapons. I don't begrudge the police their protection, but I do think it's a shame it's come to this.
    Granted- policing is a very dangerous job here. At the same time, wearing military style uniforms is simply not needed. One can still be prepared to counter a threat while weaing a blue uniform.

  6. #26
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Cops may still be civilians, but civilians with military weapons far beyond the requirement for law enforcement.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When in our history did the American right wing begin the hard turn against law enforcement? At one time American conservatives and support for law enforcement went hand in hand. Now, its obvious that the hate for government that is part and parcel of libertarianism has been extended to law enforcement. When did this devolution happen?

    This thread is merely the latest example of it here.
    I disagree with your analysis of the right wing.

    For decades I have noticed a split between the left and right when it comes to law enforcement. This division is never about law enforcement in general but instead WHICH law enforcement.

    We have local state and federal law enforcement. Based on my own observations left wingers like and support FEDERAL law enforcement while being critical of local law enforcement. Right wingers are the other way around.

    Take the examples of Ruby Ridge, Waco and even the recent Cliven Bundy circus, left wing progressives defend the governments action at every turn while conservatives accuse the government of doing wrong. On the other hand whenver there is a controversial shooting or use of force by local cops in any city the conservatives tend totake the side of the police while progressives scream police brutality or whatever.

    One also has to remmeber that more and more funding for local police comes from teh federal government now which somemay see as a shifting of loyolty and priorities on the part of the police. The idea of " to protect and serve " begs the question " WHO is being protected and served?" The citizens and people? Or mayeb those passing out the funding which is the federal government embodied by the chief executive.

    Both sides need to wake up and realize we have to many laws which why the government keeps justifying more and more law enforcement power.

    Are Cops Too Militarized?-ggu77la-jpg

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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The dictionary disagree with you. Every one I can find disagrees with you. Cops are not civilians.

    google search definition



    from Merriam Webster dictionary




    I have provided many more in the past and could do so again for your continued edification and enlightenment.
    Using google search does not make you smarter. Cops are civilians, ask any lawyer (or even any cop) and he/she will tell you because a civilian is anyone who isnt military.

  9. #29
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What militarization of the police? The things discussed int he OP are for the most part keeping up with technology. are you against the police keeping up with technology?

    I suspect part of the reliance on more powerful equipment is the slavish campaign to reduce municipal budgets thereby costing police jobs and positions and the difference then has to be made up in equipment rather than bodies. And it was a right wing desire to slash taxes and government that was the impetus for this.
    You are assuming that they need the technology or the bodies truth is they are getting more of both.

    Police departments seldom lay people off or cut their size, if they do cut the size of their force it is usually only temporary until more money can be found to hire more.

    Besides if a particular municiple region loses population and shrinks in size why do they need as much law enforcement? Some cities have a shrinking population but growing PD and no one can explain the math behind this. Coincidentally the same problem exists with schools some of which I see with a shrinking student population yet ever increasing budget and infrastructure.

    We do not need as many police as you might think. Most local regions would be quite satisfied with much smaller forces especially when people simply realize they need to protect themselves from crime because the police cannot and never will be capable of doing so. In fact it is not their job to protect anyone.

    Some communities have even done away with law enforcement completely and been just fine as a result or at least no worse off. Before anyone jumps to conclusions I am referring to large municiple areas in modern times. I.E in the 1980s a large suburb of Cincinnati Oh called Colerain Township voted by referendum to abolish and disband their police department. The Township as I said was large with a population into the tens of thousands. The bill was pushed onto referendum because many were sick of the graft and corruption of their PD. When it passed and the police were disbanded nothing happened. Crime did not rise it stayed at the same rate or even declined slightly depending on who you ask. Daily police functions such as traffic enforcement etc. was taken over by the county. It was years before they got around to reforming and reconstituting a new PD.

    Obviously we cannot do away with all law enforcement all at once but it would be nice if more departments were axed once in a while just to remind the cops who they are SUPPOSED to serve and that ultimately they need their jobs more than the communities need them.

  10. #30
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Using google search does not make you smarter. Cops are civilians, ask any lawyer (or even any cop) and he/she will tell you because a civilian is anyone who isnt military.
    No they are not civilians they are officers of the government.

    Therein lies the difference.

    True they are not military but you are assuming that there is only military and civilians.

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