View Poll Results: Are police units going too far by being overly militarized?

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  • Yes

    54 87.10%
  • No

    7 11.29%
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    1 1.61%
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Thread: Are Cops Too Militarized?

  1. #201
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    Obviously not overnight but yes much of the crime and gang activities in inner cities is caused by the war on drugs so ending it would alleviate the probems some.
    It will adjust to another vice.

    The problem isn't drugs as much as it is the culture present in those types of neighborhoods and the lack of education.

  2. #202
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    We all have the Drug Warriors to thank for it.
    Yep... Because The Department of Homeland Security's purpose behind all this is to fight drugs....... even though most of the time these grants are based off of being a first line of defense against terrorism.

  3. #203
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    When it comes down to real-life issues, most libertarians stand with conservatives in protecting the power and privilege of the rich and powerful and their corporations as well as the military-industrial complex.
    You have no idea what libertarianism is, do you?

  4. #204
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    You have no idea what libertarianism is, do you?
    I understand it pretty well and see that it fails to adequately address the issues of the excessive power and privilege of the rich and powerful and their corporations, protection of the environment and the excessive spending and destruction from the military-industrial complex.

  5. #205
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When in our history did the American right wing begin the hard turn against law enforcement? At one time American conservatives and support for law enforcement went hand in hand. Now, its obvious that the hate for government that is part and parcel of libertarianism has been extended to law enforcement. When did this devolution happen?

    This thread is merely the latest example of it here.
    Most likely they were more anti-hippie then pro-law enforcement.

    Also wanting law enforcement agency not to be a para-military organization is not anti-law enforcement,

  6. #206
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I understand it pretty well and see that it fails to adequately address the issues of the excessive power and privilege of the rich and powerful and their corporations, protection of the environment and the excessive spending and destruction from the military-industrial complex.
    Well apparently you don't because you made the claim that Libertarians protect the military industrial complex which, in of itself, is an outrageous claim. Considering Libertarians are some of the most anti-war, anti military people you will ever meet, it's laughable you'd even attempt to claim we support the beast that is the military industrial complex. Right off the bat, you've discredited yourself entirely by making that statement.

    It's also pretty funny that you claim that Libertarians support the rich and powerful considering we are vehemently opposed to corporate welfare, bank bailouts, and corporate/bank subsidies. In fact, Libertarians have been in opposition to even the "anti rich" Democrats on these issues. I put "anti rich" in quotes because Democrats are even deeper in the corporate profit than the Republicans, which is saying something! Libertarians are extremely anti-corporatist, to say otherwise once again shows an extreme lack of knowledge of even basic Libertarian principles.

    So, I will ask the question again. You have no flippin clue what libertarianism is, do you?

  7. #207
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    most of the arguments against the reliability are based on target guns that are built tight. as to killing a person you are right. as to stopping power, perhaps not. for novices you are right. my splits for double taps with USPSA major ammunition in a 1911 and minor USPSA power factor 9mm is negligible
    While there is no doubt that target guns are less reliable than normal 1911s nontarget or match 1911s are still less reliable than guns like Glocks newer H&Ks or S@W M&Ps. That is one of the reasons that a certain military unit that was using them switched even though they have plenty of expert armorers there to keep them running.
    As to stopping power the difference is negligible. The studies I have seen done all say that both the 9 and 45 have very close to the same rounds needed for a kill as each other.
    Less recoil always everything else being equal allows for faster follow up shots. That is why guys load just enough powder into their competition rounds to cycle the action.
    Is it a huge amount for a skilled user no but slower is slower.

  8. #208
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    When it comes down to real-life issues, most libertarians stand with conservatives in protecting the power and privilege of the rich and powerful and their corporations as well as the military-industrial complex.
    that isn't exactly accurate. what we oppose is the socialist solutions the left has for dealing with corporations. many libertarians opposed the Iraq war. we just don't see as a valid reaction--to the allegations "corporations have too much power" --giving the government more power to loot corporate wealth and taxing shareholders even more



  9. #209
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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    While there is no doubt that target guns are less reliable than normal 1911s nontarget or match 1911s are still less reliable than guns like Glocks newer H&Ks or S@W M&Ps. That is one of the reasons that a certain military unit that was using them switched even though they have plenty of expert armorers there to keep them running.
    As to stopping power the difference is negligible. The studies I have seen done all say that both the 9 and 45 have very close to the same rounds needed for a kill as each other.
    Less recoil always everything else being equal allows for faster follow up shots. That is why guys load just enough powder into their competition rounds to cycle the action.
    Is it a huge amount for a skilled user no but slower is slower.
    1) I agree the modern guns are slightly more reliable. I shoot a MP 5" in steel. I shoot a CZ Czechmate in unlimited (race gun). My son, however, shoots a Springfield Armory in "single stack" or 1911 divisions. It is as reliable as his stock gun-a Glock 34 with Dawson sights.

    2) modern 9mm ammo such as golden sabers, Hornady critical defense or Federal Hydrashocks have almost as good stopping power as modern 45 ACP loads. Where the 45 ACP has a clear advantage is when you are limited to FMJ''

    3) in steel we load the rounds enough to reliably cycle the action. In USPSA its to make the 165 Power factor (Major) though. you can make 165 with a nine millimeter but its way beyond SAAMI specs and only in guns designed for such loads like an STI match master or the Czechmate.



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    Re: Are Cops Too Militarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    And having regular guns would have magically kept multiple vehicles from getting shot?
    What?

    I'll try anyway, cops are supposed to bring criminals to justice, as in the courts. Military is to kill people and break things.

    A militarized police will ultimately become more trigger happy and less discerning of targets.

    That's not good for anyone.

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