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High school exit exams

Do you think exit exams are fair

  • Yes, we let kids off too easy, they need to prove themselves

    Votes: 27 60.0%

  • No, this can devastate and humiliate a teen

    Votes: 3 6.7%

  • It's only fair if the teen failed other classes

    Votes: 5 11.1%

  • The teen should still be able to walk just not get a diploma

    Votes: 1 2.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 9 20.0%
  • Total voters
    45
Layla_Z said:
On of the many reasons merit pay based on test scores is a bad idea.
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"Merit" should be based on other measures (professional development, service, and other meritorious contributions) as well as student "success"; otherwise, you're guaranteeing grade inflation.
 
nota bene said:
I'm familiar with SLOs and "quality enhancement" measures, and I think they've become an obsession.

Here is a slanted overview from Public School Review: Pros and Cons of Public School Exit Exams

I was reading along about unique learning styles and blah-blah-blah, and then I reached the crap about how these standardized tests tend to favor those who are left-brained:

Despite these learning differences, however, “The standardized exit exams that many states are adopting favor the left-brained students. These students tend to learn by lecture, memorize easier, and don’t become confused with the answer choices. Right-brained students don't do as well on these tests in spite of knowing the topic. They see every answer as a possibility under the right conditions. In spite of knowing the information, they are likely to select an incorrect answer.”
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It could be that the test is flawed, and not the idea of testing potential graduates for the skills they should have acquired while in school.
 
Your Star said:
I graduated 5 years ago(holy **** it's been 5 years already! :lol:) and took these tests. They are SO FREAKING EASY! On every test but the math I finished them all in like 15 minutes, the math took me 30 minutes, and I scored in the top 5 percentile in every subject. So yeah, they aren't that hard.
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This was my son's experience as well. He took it the first time it was offered (either freshman year or sophomore) and passed it in a breeze.
 
Dittohead not! said:
It could be that the test is flawed, and not the idea of testing potential graduates for the skills they should have acquired while in school.
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I'm not sure I follow your point. I didn't offer my opinion on exit exams.
 
herenow1 said:
Over the past several years some states have implemented passing exit exams be required for graduation. 26 states have made this a requirement.If a child passes all of their classes, even if they're an A B student, they can't walk or graduate b/c they didn't pass an exit exam. Some of the tests include questions the teachers haven't even covered. Granted you have 4 yrs to pass it, BUT not everyone does well on tests. Do you think this is fair? Do you think it's fair that a child goes to school, passes all his classes, graduates to the next grade each year, yet he/she can't walk all b/c they fail a test?
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My opinion is that these tests/requirements, not just to graduate but to advance with each grade, should be harder. I have noticed since my kids have been in school that Kindergarten is tougher than what I think it used to be but then it lets up. With the technology available our kids should be noticeably ahead of where many of us were when we graduated. Our schools should not be set up so that it is easy to advance, it should be set up so that kids are challenged and it should be a real accomplishment to finish a grade level or graduate high school.
 
Kreton said:
My opinion is that these tests/requirements, not just to graduate but to advance with each grade, should be harder. I have noticed since my kids have been in school that Kindergarten is tougher than what I think it used to be but then it lets up. With the technology available our kids should be noticeably ahead of where many of us were when we graduated. Our schools should not be set up so that it is easy to advance, it should be set up so that kids are challenged and it should be a real accomplishment to finish a grade level or graduate high school.
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That's actually not a bad idea. I also support kids being able to advance quicker and/or be offered additional areas of study if so warranted.
 
nota bene said:
I'm not sure I follow your point. I didn't offer my opinion on exit exams.
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The point is that, if the exit exam favors one sort of learner over another, then that shows that the test may be flawed and should be redone.
 
Superfly said:
When I was in high school (granted, it was a million years ago), we had to be either on an academic path or a technical path. If we didn't plan on college, and have classes that reflected that, we had to go to technical school, and have classes that reflected that. You couldn't just float through high school without some kind of a plan for your future. They forced you to have one.
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Good, because God knows I sure as hell don't want to be paying someone else's welfare when they had a choice.

The "horrors" educationally speaking, of public schools is still fresh in my mind after leaving middle school last year. The sheer amount of stupidity, not the students, but of the teachers and moreso the administration (my biggest issue isn't with teachers but with the "higher" ups of the school hierarchy), astonished me. ENTIRE curriculums based purely on the memorization of stupid ****ing **** like "what's the population of Africa" or "Where is Antarctica located".

Well whatever, Thank God for private schools, but like hell am I going to fight for educational reforms because that **** is just plain, damn, stupid. STUPID I tell you.
 
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Luftwaffe said:
Good, because God knows I sure as hell don't want to be paying someone elses welfare whe they had a choice.

The "horrors" educationally speaking, of public schools is still fresh in my mind after leaving middle school last year. The sheer amount of stupidity, not the students, but of the teachers and moreso the administration (my biggest issue isn't with teachers but with the "higher" ups of the school hierarchy), astonished me. ENTIRE curriculums based purely on the memorization of stupid ****ing **** like "what's the population of Africa" or "Where is Antarctica located".

Well whatever, Thank God for private schools, but like hell am I going to fight for educational reforms because that **** is just plain, damn, stupid. STUPID I tell you.
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I think I agree with what you are trying to say, but, if you don't know where Antarctica is you should still be in Elementary School, not anywhere near graduating high school.
 
Winchester said:
That's actually not a bad idea. I also support kids being able to advance quicker and/or be offered additional areas of study if so warranted.
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So they can memorize more? You guys are missing the point, the educational system needs to be changed fundamentally, the entire system is stuck in the early 1900's when we were an industrial economy. Now that we are going into what is called an "intellectual" economy our education needs to change as such.

8th grade (last year for me) was the most idiotic thing I ever experienced. It's these little things like memorizing formulas and not getting formulas on a sheet rather than being given the formulas and understanding where to apply them in math problems and in problems of the "real world". Nah, instead, you just memorize the formulas for the sake of memorizing and come test time you have to find (in verbatim) "The circumference of a tin can found in the trash".

"The circumference of a tin can found in the trash"

I don't even have to explain at this point as to why our education system is a terrible piece of **** you guys should get the point by now.
 
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Kreton said:
I think I agree with what you are trying to say, but, if you don't know where Antarctica is you should still be in Elementary School, not anywhere near graduating high school.
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Yes, but lets not fixate ourselves on tiny things no? The point is that the education system is teaching the U.S. as if everyone was dumb and illiterate like we were a few centuries ago.
 
Luftwaffe said:
So they can memorize more? You guys are missing the point, the educational system needs to be changed fundamentally, the entire system is stuck in the early 1900's when we were an industrial economy. Now that we are going into what is called an "intellectual" economy our education needs to change as such.

8th grade (last year for me) was the most idiotic thing I ever experienced. It's these little things like memorizing formulas and not getting formulas on a sheet rather than being given the formulas and understanding where to apply them in math problems and in problems of the "real world". Nah, instead, you just memorize the formulas for the sake of memorizing and come test time you have to find (in verbatim) "The circumference of a tin can found in the trash".

"The circumference of a tin can found in the trash"

I don't even have to explain at this point as to why our education system is a terrible piece of **** you guys should get the point by now.
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Why not just get rid of testing altogether then?
 
Luftwaffe said:
Yes, but lets not fixate ourselves on tiny things no? The point is that the education system is teaching the U.S. as if everyone was dumb and illiterate like we were a few centuries ago.
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I thought I knew what you were getting at but then you lost me. Learning, whether your want to call it memorization or any other word, is important. Knowing formulas. Geography. History. These are things that should be being taught. Yes, much of it is memorization. But that is part of the process. Schools are, even today when in much need of improving, is far more than simple memorization.
 
Dittohead not! said:
The point is that, if the exit exam favors one sort of learner over another, then that shows that the test may be flawed and should be redone.
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Will there ever be a perfect test that somehow manages to meet the needs of all types and sub-types of learners?

And what I quoted suggested that some tests favor the left-brained over the right-brained. I will happily repeat my opinion that this may be taking things a little too far. I am about as right-brained a person as you'll ever find, understand the learning disabilities associated with lefthandedness, and am also more than a little militant about the ordinary inconveniences that those who are "right-brained" experience. And I did just fine on every standardized test I ever took, including the SAT and GRE when I was hung over and still hadn't gone to bed.

Time to stop making excuses for slackers. If the student can't pass a minimum-standards test on the three R's, that student shouldn't have a diploma.
 
Luftwaffe said:
So they can memorize more? You guys are missing the point, the educational system needs to be changed fundamentally, the entire system is stuck in the early 1900's when we were an industrial economy. Now that we are going into what is called an "intellectual" economy our education needs to change as such.

8th grade (last year for me) was the most idiotic thing I ever experienced. It's these little things like memorizing formulas and not getting formulas on a sheet rather than being given the formulas and understanding where to apply them in math problems and in problems of the "real world". Nah, instead, you just memorize the formulas for the sake of memorizing and come test time you have to find (in verbatim) "The circumference of a tin can found in the trash".

"The circumference of a tin can found in the trash"

I don't even have to explain at this point as to why our education system is a terrible piece of **** you guys should get the point by now.
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You're very perceptive for one so young.

While I don't think the educational system is quite as bad as you make it out to be, it most definitely needs some radical reform, including getting away from the memorization of facts that can be found on the internet, ending central control, more options such as vocational training, and the end of the 19th. century idea of the summer break.

Public schools need to have to compete for students instead of simply requiring parents to use the school that the district says they have to use.

Oh, and those layers of bureaucracy have to be done away with.

I had a student years ago who turned 18 and ran for the school board. He won. You might be able to do the same, and then begin at least to institute some reforms.
 
Kreton said:
I thought I knew what you were getting at but then you lost me. Learning, whether your want to call it memorization or any other word, is important. Knowing formulas. Geography. History. These are things that should be being taught. Yes, much of it is memorization. But that is part of the process. Schools are, even today when in much need of improving, is far more than simple memorization.
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"Is far more than memorization" And the last time you were in the PES was? For me? not even a year ago. Nothing wrong with memorization yes, but there is too much of it at the cost of everything else like experience.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Yes, but lets not fixate ourselves on tiny things no? The point is that the education system is teaching the U.S. as if everyone was dumb and illiterate like we were a few centuries ago.
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There are far too many kids out there who ARE as dumb and illiterate as they were a few centuries ago. We need to be spending more time teaching them things they need to know and less of the ridiculous liberal "feel good about yourself" nonsense.
 
Cephus said:
There are far too many kids out there who ARE as dumb and illiterate as they were a few centuries ago. We need to be spending more time teaching them things they need to know and less of the ridiculous liberal "feel good about yourself" nonsense.
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I think most of that "feel good about yourself" that you mention was in vogue about 40 years ago. It's not so popular any more anyway.
 
Luftwaffe said:
"Is far more than memorization" And the last time you were in the PES was? For me? not even a year ago. Nothing wrong with memorization yes, but there is too much of it at the cost of everything else like experience.
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I am technically "in" it now. Because I have children. And yes, I expect my children to know about major historical events, mathematical formulas, the location of a major continent. I think almost parent expects their children to learn these things.

As for experience, what experience are you talking about? Child labor camps?
 
Dittohead not! said:
I think most of that "feel good about yourself" that you mention was in vogue about 40 years ago. It's not so popular any more anyway.
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I think it is. There are many college students, for example, who think that they deserve a passing grade just because they came to class every day. There are others who aren't even marginally prepared for college work but who blame their profs rather than themselves for deciding so long ago that they didn't "like" to read. They think it's unfair (and so do their helicopter parents) that they have to take remedial ("developmental") math classes for no credit before they can enroll in algebra.
 
herenow1 said:
My son graduates next week, one of his friends isn't b/c he failed the test and is devastated. I feel bad for him, he's a good kid. I know if they had this requirement when I was in HS I wouldn't have graduated b/c I would have failed the math portion. You have to pass all three, math, science ,and English. I was terrible at math and only made it to pre algebra. If it wasn't division, multiplication, adding and subtracting, it was Greek to me. I just think it's stupid, especially in states where the school systems are the lowest ranking!
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Is that a roundabout way of saying our school system has been failing for quite some time and we're just noticing now with this generation that we've tested?
 
It seems to me that people who are too ****ing stupid to do well on tests always seem to bitch about tests.
 
Luftwaffe said:
So they can memorize more? You guys are missing the point, the educational system needs to be changed fundamentally, the entire system is stuck in the early 1900's when we were an industrial economy.
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actually, it was the system from our agrarian age; a time when families worked the farm. hence, the need to take summers off to tend to the crops
so, why the need for summers off today, when our kids are no longer needed to tend our crops in the field

Now that we are going into what is called an "intellectual" economy our education needs to change as such.
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in the information age, with most information at our fingertips, the need to teach research techniques to students has substantially diminished. as has the need to remember information that is readily available. teaching students to solve problems is much more difficult. now, instead of expecting the right answers, we should instead be expecting the students to formulate and ask the most appropriate questions

8th grade (last year for me) was the most idiotic thing I ever experienced. It's these little things like memorizing formulas and not getting formulas on a sheet rather than being given the formulas and understanding where to apply them in math problems and in problems of the "real world". Nah, instead, you just memorize the formulas for the sake of memorizing and come test time you have to find (in verbatim) "The circumference of a tin can found in the trash".

"The circumference of a tin can found in the trash"
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did not follow your anecdote
but if your objection is to the forcing of memorization instead of the application of math processes, then we are in sync

I don't even have to explain at this point as to why our education system is a terrible piece of **** you guys should get the point by now.
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pointing out what does not work is a common ability
being able to explain why it does not work requires a stronger mind
and being able to fashion a solution to the problem is something few are able to successfully undertake
with that i encourage you to share with us what should be done to make the education system a better one
 
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