High school exit exams

Being a teen myself, I really don't like the idea of exit exams. I'm sure I could pass one for every core subject though.

nota bene said:

I don't care either.

Realistically, one way or another, at 19 (at least in my state) they're free not to attend anymore.

It may take another ten years to see what "social promotions" and "entitlement" and so on hath wrought. But I can testify that the "best and brightest" in college too often are not and wouldn't have made it to college ten years ago. Many, many can't do math, are historically and culturally illiterate, and cannot comprehend what they read in a newspaper article (much less a thoughtful essay).

Because, in defiance of scientific law, the sickening culture of measurement and assessment has trickled upward into academia, professors are now being "encouraged" to let all students know that they too can be "successful" in their classes.

In plain English, the pressure is on to inflate grades even on the college level. Failure, after all, is only "delayed success," and "everybody is a winner." Except that this often is a lie, and it's better to face your deficits and either overcome them or accept them. Sorry, you don't have what it takes to attend medical school, even if you've been told all your life that you can do anything if you just set your mind to it.

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The use of measurement and assessment with standardized tests is intended to counter tendencies towards "social promotions" and "entitlement." A certain amount of standard testing is appropriate to insure that students have learned the essentials. Too much testing can result in teaching to the test only, without broader learning objectives being accomplished.

Robbie Loucks said:

Being a teen myself, I really don't like the idea of exit exams. I'm sure I could pass one for every core subject though.

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Nothing wrong with showing you know your stuff before getting a diploma.

I know walking the stage to get my diploma was a big deal, as it is to most kids and their parents. The kids who do the bare minimum, skip school to sleep and do drugs I have no sympathy for. I do have sympathy for "slow learners", or people who don't pick up things as easily. Like I said I was terrible in math! Here is a sample test from our state of the math version.

cpgrad08 said:

Nothing wrong with showing you know your stuff before getting a diploma.

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Again, I don't see the point. What do schools who utilize exit exams gain as opposed to schools who don't have exit exams? Sounds like a waste of time and money to me.

herenow1 said:

My son graduates next week, one of his friends isn't b/c he failed the test and is devastated. I feel bad for him, he's a good kid. I know if they had this requirement when I was in HS I wouldn't have graduated b/c I would have failed the math portion. You have to pass all three, math, science ,and English. I was terrible at math and only made it to pre algebra. If it wasn't division, multiplication, adding and subtracting, it was Greek to me. I just think it's stupid, especially in states where the school systems are the lowest ranking!

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I think it's a reasonable requirement and maybe failing to graduate might be enough motivation for some young people to take their schoolwork a bit more seriously.

The college my son is going to requires every jr to pass a graduation readiness exam, don't pass, don't get your degree till you do.

In Australia (New South Wales I can speak for), walking through the front gate is all that is required to go up to the next grade. Actually, they don't even do that. Some students show up in Year 7 then don't come back and they are automatically promoted to the next year. It is all automatic promotion until Year 11-12. Year 12 is a state exam for the HSC (Higher School Certificate). No student has to do any work whatsoever....no class work, no assessment tasks, no homework....until they get to Year 11. As soon as a student turns 17, they can be "asked to leave" if they are trouble makers.

No competition, everyone wins and this is the result.

Robbie Loucks said:

Again, I don't see the point. What do schools who utilize exit exams gain as opposed to schools who don't have exit exams? Sounds like a waste of time and money to me.

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They ensure that you are qualified to have an HS diploma.

And teachers need to be paid and keep their jobs based on their results. Not just for one year or one class, but over a period of 5 yrs or so. Raises should be merit-based.

LadyMoonlight said:

In Australia (New South Wales I can speak for), walking through the front gate is all that is required to go up to the next grade. Actually, they don't even do that. Some students show up in Year 7 then don't come back and they are automatically promoted to the next year. It is all automatic promotion until Year 11-12. Year 12 is a state exam for the HSC (Higher School Certificate). No student has to do any work whatsoever....no class work, no assessment tasks, no homework....until they get to Year 11. As soon as a student turns 17, they can be "asked to leave" if they are trouble makers.

No competition, everyone wins and this is the result.

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Kinda sounds like whether the students learn or not (til year 11) depends greatly on whether their parents ensure they do.

cpgrad08 said:

They ensure that you are qualified to have an HS diploma.

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I get that, but I don't see how it's worth the cost. If these exams are as easy as I've heard, then they're not going to change the graduation rate much. You'd have to be a really talented cheater to go pass through all your classes in high school and not have the capabilities to pass the exit exam. (Even then, they would still have to pass other standardized tests earlier in their high school career)

Lursa said:

And teachers need to be paid and keep their jobs based on their results. Not just for one year or one class, but over a period of 5 yrs or so. Raises should be merit-based.

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Sadly, it's not that simple for high school education. My sociology teacher's pay reflects the standardized test scores of his students. The thing is that his classes are only available for juniors and seniors and a large majority of students take their standardized tests as 8th graders, freshmen, and sophomores. His pay is influenced by something he has no control over.

herenow1 said:

I know walking the stage to get my diploma was a big deal, as it is to most kids and their parents. The kids who do the bare minimum, skip school to sleep and do drugs I have no sympathy for. I do have sympathy for "slow learners", or people who don't pick up things as easily. Like I said I was terrible in math! Here is a sample test from our state of the math version.

View attachment 67166726

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I wonder when you'd use that skill in a practical situation?

Dittohead not! said:

I wonder when you'd use that skill in a practical situation?

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Right!!

herenow1 said:

Over the past several years some states have implemented passing exit exams be required for graduation. 26 states have made this a requirement.If a child passes all of their classes, even if they're an A B student, they can't walk or graduate b/c they didn't pass an exit exam. Some of the tests include questions the teachers haven't even covered. Granted you have 4 yrs to pass it, BUT not everyone does well on tests. Do you think this is fair? Do you think it's fair that a child goes to school, passes all his classes, graduates to the next grade each year, yet he/she can't walk all b/c they fail a test?

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Yes its fair. Very. They have to do the same thing in real life too. If they can't in four years figure out how to pass a test, really are they ever? The schools have to be able to measure via a common and practical way the results of the education they are providing. At least that's what should be the reason.

I voted only if they failed in other classes. Not everyone can take tests. My middle daughter isn't good at testing. She freezes up. She can answer almost every question with 100% accuracy if asked by the teacher, but when it comes to tests, she just freezes up.

Exit exams, in my opinion, should only be given if the student failed everything else. Otherwise it's just an unnecessary expense, and something else to make the kids worry about. They have already got enough to worry about.

Robbie Loucks said:

Sadly, it's not that simple for high school education. My sociology teacher's pay reflects the standardized test scores of his students. The thing is that his classes are only available for juniors and seniors and a large majority of students take their standardized tests as 8th graders, freshmen, and sophomores. His pay is influenced by something he has no control over.

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On of the many reasons merit pay based on test scores is a bad idea.

Superfly said:

I voted only if they failed in other classes. Not everyone can take tests. My middle daughter isn't good at testing. She freezes up. She can answer almost every question with 100% accuracy if asked by the teacher, but when it comes to tests, she just freezes up.

Exit exams, in my opinion, should only be given if the student failed everything else. Otherwise it's just an unnecessary expense, and something else to make the kids worry about. They have already got enough to worry about.

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Isn't this like how the GED works now? Except the student pays the expense and the GED isn't accepted in the same was as a diploma.

Layla_Z said:

Isn't this like how the GED works now? Except the student pays the expense and the GED isn't accepted in the same was as a diploma.

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Meh, I don't get all the hate for GEDs. I've heard people on both sides of the coin. Some say that a GED says that the student didn't work hard enough, or couldn't finish anything, so they aren't a good risk. Then I've heard that GEDs are looked at better than a diploma, because a GED test is really hard, and forces you to know certain information, whereas a high school diploma does not, as students are often passed without having full knowledge of the material.

The Mark said:

I suspect it's designed to combat teachers giving students a passing grade for something they didn't actually pass (not sure how much that actually happens), and probably to combat students who cheated on class tests.

Or something.

That said, Ithink many/most tests only really measure memorization skills, not actual skill/knowledge of the subject.

Of course with memorized information, skill and knowledge can be learned through application of same, I suppose.

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And the tests that are biggest on memorization and nothing else are the midterms and finals. No learning involved, just writing over what you already learned a while ago, or trying to at least...

Schools need to focus on granting opportunities to give students experience. That is what schools lack, experience granting opportunities. Right now the "issue" they completely focus on is having kids memorize **** and nothing else. They're missing the point entirely here, and its seen because the second a kid graduates from High school and doesn't go to college THE WANKER HAS NO DAMN SKILLS TO DO **** BUT BE IN MCDONALDS. We need a total overhaul of the PES. Apprenticeship is one way of tackling the issue, a way to get kids ready for a specific type of work in case they wish to not go to college.

Luftwaffe said:

Schools need to focus on granting opportunities to give students experience. That is what schools lack, experience granting opportunities. Right now the "issue" they completely focus on is having kids memorize **** and nothing else. They're missing the point entirely here, and its seen because the second a kid graduates from High school and doesn't go to college THE WANKER HAS NO DAMN SKILLS TO DO **** BUT BE IN MCDONALDS. We need a total overhaul of the PES. Apprenticeship is one way of tackling the issue, a way to get kids ready for a specific type of work in case they wish to not go to college.

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When I was in high school (granted, it was a million years ago), we had to be either on an academic path or a technical path. If we didn't plan on college, and have classes that reflected that, we had to go to technical school, and have classes that reflected that. You couldn't just float through high school without some kind of a plan for your future. They forced you to have one.

i think both.. they should be required to take the test, but not have it affect their graduating.
itll potentially give them a snapshot of what theyve retained and perhaps what theyll encounter going forward.

Hard Truth said:

The use of measurement and assessment with standardized tests is intended to counter tendencies towards "social promotions" and "entitlement." A certain amount of standard testing is appropriate to insure that students have learned the essentials. Too much testing can result in teaching to the test only, without broader learning objectives being accomplished.

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I'm familiar with SLOs and "quality enhancement" measures, and I think they've become an obsession.

Here is a slanted overview from Public School Review: Pros and Cons of Public School Exit Exams

I was reading along about unique learning styles and blah-blah-blah, and then I reached the crap about how these standardized tests tend to favor those who are left-brained:

Despite these learning differences, however, “The standardized exit exams that many states are adopting favor the left-brained students. These students tend to learn by lecture, memorize easier, and don’t become confused with the answer choices. Right-brained students don't do as well on these tests in spite of knowing the topic. They see every answer as a possibility under the right conditions. In spite of knowing the information, they are likely to select an incorrect answer.”

herenow1 said:

Over the past several years some states have implemented passing exit exams be required for graduation. 26 states have made this a requirement.If a child passes all of their classes, even if they're an A B student, they can't walk or graduate b/c they didn't pass an exit exam. Some of the tests include questions the teachers haven't even covered. Granted you have 4 yrs to pass it, BUT not everyone does well on tests. Do you think this is fair? Do you think it's fair that a child goes to school, passes all his classes, graduates to the next grade each year, yet he/she can't walk all b/c they fail a test?

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No it's not fair but government never can be fair or even about fair.

In the last century public schools were primarily run by the community and states. For some reason it was actually a notable achievement to graduate high school. It was presumed that graduating meant you had at least a decent basic education. Now that presumption is long gone and of course the education system is run more and more by the federal government. I have heard business owners and managers state that they are more interested in hiring applicants who have a GED than a high school diploma. The reason seems to be that they get too many kids at wal mart or mcdonalds who apply with a high school diploma but cannot even spell the month correctly when they fill in the date on the application. The point is you still have to learn some stuff to get a GED but many kids are simply being passed through the education system to get them out of the building.

A teacher I dated told me that Bush's no child left behind made it worse by encouraging teachers to just give every kid a passing grade regardless of what they learned.

Maybe these tests are an effort to stop this sort of thing I don't really know but it is obvious something has gone wrong with education. Every president tries no methods and more funding for the federal Department of Education to fix the problem. Actually the methods seem to be the same old thing with a new name.

Even the department of education itself shows that achievement scores among high school grads has dropped since 1980 which is the year that the dept of ed was created. Yet funding ( which means tax dollars ) for education has increased with every president as has employment and infrastructure. Strange considering that the number of students is also decreasing.

I think that it is clear that the federal involvement in education is a failure and we need to disband and stop the dept of ed. We are simply throwing good money after bad. Maybe some disagree but I believe most parents care deeply about their kids furture and the importance of education for that future. Given the incentive to do so they will be heavily involved in watching and overseeing their local schools. They lost that incentive when the government came in and declared itself the uber parent which will educated all kids and parents need not involve themselves nor should they.

The result of government trying to educate everyone is testing to make sure kids who have passed their classes actually learned something.