View Poll Results: Do you think exit exams are fair

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  • Yes, we let kids off too easy, they need to prove themselves

    30 61.22%
  • No, this can devastate and humiliate a teen

    3 6.12%
  • It's only fair if the teen failed other classes

    6 12.24%
  • The teen should still be able to walk just not get a diploma

    1 2.04%
  • Other

    9 18.37%
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Thread: High school exit exams

  1. #91
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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    So you have a list of required classes and corresponding final exams yet somehow need an "exit exam" to graduate. What a load of ****.
    so, your position is completing two out the three requirements for graduation should be enough
    tell us why passing the exit exam should be found unnecessary

    This is just an admission that the teachers or required classes failed
    no
    it's proof that the student did not adequately learn the required material in order to receive his/her diploma

    now, if you make the case that the other students within the failing student's cohort also did not meet the requirements, then there would appear to be legitimate basis to blame the teaching
    but if, as is almost always the case, other students succeeded, after sitting in the same classes, with the same teachers, the student's failure cannot reasonably be attributed to the quality of instruction
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  2. #92
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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so, your position is completing two out the three requirements for graduation should be enough
    tell us why passing the exit exam should be found unnecessary


    no
    it's proof that the student did not adequately learn the required material in order to receive his/her diploma

    now, if you make the case that the other students within the failing student's cohort also did not meet the requirements, then there would appear to be legitimate basis to blame the teaching
    but if, as is almost always the case, other students succeeded, after sitting in the same classes, with the same teachers, the student's failure cannot reasonably be attributed to the quality of instruction
    The final exam in the corresponding classes should be able to prove that. You could just add any questions from the exit exam onto the finals and there, problem solved. Any "exit exam" would be just repeating what they were already tested on, unless the questions are unfairly based on material they were never taught in those required classes, or based on non-required classes, or the teachers did a lousy job designing the tests. It's not for the same purpose as ACT/SAT.

  3. #93
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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    Over the past several years some states have implemented passing exit exams be required for graduation. 26 states have made this a requirement.If a child passes all of their classes, even if they're an A B student, they can't walk or graduate b/c they didn't pass an exit exam. Some of the tests include questions the teachers haven't even covered. Granted you have 4 yrs to pass it, BUT not everyone does well on tests. Do you think this is fair? Do you think it's fair that a child goes to school, passes all his classes, graduates to the next grade each year, yet he/she can't walk all b/c they fail a test?
    It's pointless. School has already turned into nothing but a bunch of standardized tests, and they don't work because we just keep dropping the standard as our schools get worse.

    Besides that, it's way too late by then. What are you gonna do with what is now probably an adult who fails the exam? If someone fell so far behind they can't pass public school, the help should have started 10 years sooner.

    Standardized testing has already become a replacement for real learning. I think it is partly to blame for our dropping standards -- it forces teachers to just regurgitate future test answers and it gives government and administrators a way to jimmy the results and say we're doing fine, rather than letting teachers work with students in the way they feel is best.

    We need less emphasis on testing, not more.

  4. #94
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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    It's pointless. School has already turned into nothing but a bunch of standardized tests, and they don't work because we just keep dropping the standard as our schools get worse.

    Besides that, it's way too late by then. What are you gonna do with what is now probably an adult who fails the exam? If someone fell so far behind they can't pass public school, the help should have started 10 years sooner.

    Standardized testing has already become a replacement for real learning. I think it is partly to blame for our dropping standards -- it forces teachers to just regurgitate future test answers and it gives government and administrators a way to jimmy the results and say we're doing fine, rather than letting teachers work with students in the way they feel is best.

    We need less emphasis on testing, not more.
    If somehow schools could be categorized based on how well their students do on higher learning entrance exams and when looking for work, it might more accurately indicate how much they actually learned.

    Granted college entrance exams are in some ways more of the same (tests), and job interviews are just another form of test...kinda.

    Perhaps even give students a college entrance exam as a finial test in High School? FWIW...
    Education.

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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    If somehow schools could be categorized based on how well their students do on higher learning entrance exams and when looking for work, it might more accurately indicate how much they actually learned.

    Granted college entrance exams are in some ways more of the same (tests), and job interviews are just another form of test...kinda.

    Perhaps even give students a college entrance exam as a finial test in High School? FWIW...
    As a former college tutor, I can tell you that won't work either, at least not with the way they're currently done. All kinds of people pass entrance exams who are nowhere near ready to be in college.

    Speaking to literacy, which is the area I know best, the main problem is that the tests don't require novel construction. They're mostly fill in the blank. There are plenty of people who can fill in a blank, but can't construct a proper sentence. I had them in my sessions every day.

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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    As a former college tutor, I can tell you that won't work either, at least not with the way they're currently done. All kinds of people pass entrance exams who are nowhere near ready to be in college.

    Speaking to literacy, which is the area I know best, the main problem is that the tests don't require novel construction. They're mostly fill in the blank. There are plenty of people who can fill in a blank, but can't construct a proper sentence. I had them in my sessions every day.
    That's because college entrance exams are not designed as a pass/fail, but rather to determine what classes the prospective student needs to get up to speed.

    Which would also show what they had actually learned (or not).
    Education.

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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    That's because college entrance exams are not designed as a pass/fail, but rather to determine what classes the prospective student needs to get up to speed.

    Which would also show what they had actually learned (or not).
    Yup. But it's the same general theory of testing they use in secondary school, as of now. In order for tests to mean anything, the entire concept of how we test has to be overhauled.

    I think the number of them should be drastically reduced, give teachers more freedom, and make them less standardized and more novel in order to reflect true comprehension when they are given (yes, it'd take longer, but there'd be less of them and they would be more accurate).

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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Yup. But it's the same general theory of testing they use in secondary school, as of now. In order for tests to mean anything, the entire concept of how we test has to be overhauled.

    I think the number of them should be drastically reduced, give teachers more freedom, and make them less standardized and more novel in order to reflect true comprehension when they are given (yes, it'd take longer, but there'd be less of them and they would be more accurate).
    I'm not sure if this might apply, but...

    I was homeschooled through high school (pros and cons there).

    Here in PA, homeschooled students must be evaluated by someone (not clear on what kind of credentials they need, but the "evaluator"(s) my parents used had all been teachers, previously) before they can progress to the next "grade".

    In my experience, the evaluator would examine a portfolio of the studies and activities the student (myself, for example) had performed over the past year, make some suggestions for the next year, and give them a "pass".


    Neither myself nor my brothers ever encountered a "fail" situation, but I suppose it is possible.
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  9. #99
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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    The final exam in the corresponding classes should be able to prove that. You could just add any questions from the exit exam onto the finals and there, problem solved. Any "exit exam" would be just repeating what they were already tested on, unless the questions are unfairly based on material they were never taught in those required classes, or based on non-required classes, or the teachers did a lousy job designing the tests. It's not for the same purpose as ACT/SAT.
    your argument is poorly constructed
    you insist that the exit exam should be a compilation from previous tests, which you presume the student passed
    but if the student passed those tests, would he/she not also be expected to pass the final exam covering the same material?
    and if they cannot do so, then the valid conclusion is the student did not master the basic material, rendering them ineligible to receive a diploma
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  10. #100
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    Re: High school exit exams

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I'm not sure if this might apply, but...

    I was homeschooled through high school (pros and cons there).

    Here in PA, homeschooled students must be evaluated by someone (not clear on what kind of credentials they need, but the "evaluator"(s) my parents used had all been teachers, previously) before they can progress to the next "grade".

    In my experience, the evaluator would examine a portfolio of the studies and activities the student (myself, for example) had performed over the past year, make some suggestions for the next year, and give them a "pass".

    Neither myself nor my brothers ever encountered a "fail" situation, but I suppose it is possible.
    I think that would be preferable over what we do now in public school, although I know in some states it's far too easy to pass. And this is true even of more novel school tests -- I passed an AP exam having not studied the subject in over 6 months and on tremendous amounts of drugs (temporary opioid pain meds, not the for-fun kind). I don't think I deserved to pass, honestly. I'm plenty bright, but I wasn't up to par in the subject at the time, and I barely even remember taking the test.

    I think ultimately, no one knows their students better than their teacher -- or at least that's how it should be. I can tell you my own school experience would have been drastically different -- and drastically better -- if my teachers had more ability to put me where they thought I should be. The bureaucracy held them back, and ultimately that affected the quality of the education I got. I was lucky enough to get probably more schooling at home than I did at school, but if that hadn't been the case, I really can't tell you where I'd be at this point.

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