View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  1. #61
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Was Karl Marx right about capitalism?
    Marx appears to be saying that from a "greater good" POV, efficiency can become a problem, as it leads to the same work being done by fewer people, and more people out of work.

    I'd agree we need to find the right amount of (in)efficiency, because too much is just as damaging as any other form of economic failure.

  2. #62
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    I'd say that is the most pertinent line in the thread thus far.

    Paul
    Just as long as people realize that taking away the incentive to work hard is no answer, either.

    The choice should not be between capitalism in it's most virulent form or Marxism in its, but how to devise a system that rewards people for hard work and limits the potential for exploitation while simultaneously retaining enough incentives that people will,indeed, work hard if they wish to get ahead.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Anyhoo, I've felt that Marx was right on many things, but wrong on many things. Dialectical materialism, as referred to today, is well bastardized from Plekhanov's original foundation theory. It's too personal and too subjective, which almost seems contradictory to the original definition. Most of the theories are developed through a desire for bloody revolution and contain buzzwords intent on inciting violence and assigning blame. Keep in mind that they were fighting a war in those days.

    Marx's Labor Theory of Value was shoddy and overtly humanistic to the point of being void in principle and fundamentals. Hell, even Smith didn't really nail it properly in Wealth of Nations, but then again I was disrespectful of Adam Smith and many of his views as well. Value of most uncommon things, especially these days, have ignored concepts of it being a "positional good", which can also be linked to scarcity in certain ways. I have never believed that a price tag can be assigned to anything just based on tangential input and measurable material/labor.

    And, finally, I believe in property, ownership, intellectual capital, and means of production - all things that Marx fought fiercely.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Capitalism has brought more people out of poverty more than any other economic system devised. However, if you feel you got a better alternative to it, let's hear it then.
    Capitalism has put more people in poverty in terms of stealing indigenous lands, ruining the environment, denying people access to natural resources, and making people dependent on industrialized labor that rather than focusing on the production of necessities like food, places a focus on the production of various types of machinery that cannot be consumed for sustenance.

  5. #65
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Yes means right, no means wrong.
    Ok, there is no "yes and no" option.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Capitalism has put more people in poverty in terms of stealing indigenous lands, ruining the environment, denying people access to natural resources, and making people dependent on industrialized labor that rather than focusing on the production of necessities like food, places a focus on the production of various types of machinery that cannot be consumed for sustenance.
    Yeah, capitalism sucks for people who want to live in 1820s Alabama.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Sorry. I misunderstood what you meant in my response to your previous post. If you feel this way, please elaborate.
    He was right in some of his analysis and predictions: mechanization of work, the squeeze on wages until they could no longer afford the items they create, obsession over arbitrary objects (*cough* IPhone *cough*), globalization, monopoly (or close to monopoly like with Wal-Mart), etc.

    But, of course, he was wrong on other things, such as his prediction that industrialized nations would witness revolution of the proletariat first. I also believe he focused too much on the shopowners and not enough on the landowners.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Nope. Capitalism reigns supreme. It isnt perfect but its better than anything we have come up with so far. The reason for the mass unemployment in Europe is governments spending too much money on entitlements- they are spending money they dont have. Governments with balanced budgets and surpluses (like Australia, Brazil, Norway) are doing pretty well.
    Any system where the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3 billion is unstable.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    The question wasn't about whether Marx was right about communism or socialism. Was Marx right about capitalism?
    True enough. But since Karl Marx was a communist I didn't bother to read his diatribe about capitalism. So compared to communism, capitalism is the way to go.
    Liberalismódividing up the EARNED wealth of honest, hard working and ingenious AMERICANS and giving it to the leeches who would rather waste their worthless lives living off the government teat.
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Marx appears to be saying that from a "greater good" POV, efficiency can become a problem, as it leads to the same work being done by fewer people, and more people out of work.

    I'd agree we need to find the right amount of (in)efficiency, because too much is just as damaging as any other form of economic failure.
    The million dollar question is whether that efficiency is possible under a purely capitalistic model. I really don't think it's possible. Having said that, I think it is possible under a model that has some capitalist elements. But that would not be capitalism, in the strict sense of the term.

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