View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  1. #541
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Oh boy, you're never gonna really get to it are you.

    Was Marx right about the internal contradictions of capitalism?

    Whether profiting is or is not moral is besides the point, even if it is, Marx says that Capitalism has internal contradictions that make it collapse and lead it into constant crisis.
    You mean did Marx state the obvious?

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You don't know anything about malls. I have done it. I know how they operate. There was space there I could have rented, it's just that the space was no good.
    And the answer was in your answer as to the why.. you could lease that space. It sucked.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    And the answer was in your answer as to the why.. you could lease that space. It sucked.
    The answer is that the mall will deny space to you, depending on who you are.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The answer is that the mall will deny space to you, depending on who you are.
    No, you did not at all demonstrate that conclusion. You are assuming much more than you have shown. Mall shoppers go to malls that have all the 'good' shops. That 'good' list is always changing. Though some businesses have been able to remain on that short list for extended amounts of time. But if any of them (no matter who owns them) all the become on the 'out' list then no matter their standings they are removed to make room for those on the 'good' list. It is business and nothing more. If you had a shop that virtually ALL mall shoppers want to go to then as long as the mall has space you will be on the 'good' list. It is dictated by market demand. So what was it that you thought was marketable in a mall?

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    You mean did Marx state the obvious?
    Oh, so you agree With him there? Capitalism has internal contradictison that lead it into constant crisis and ultimately collapse?

    Ok, and Yeah, it is obvious when you actually study it.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    No, you did not at all demonstrate that conclusion.
    Yes I did demonstrate it. Again, I really don't think you understand what is going on at all. The leasing agent told me point blank that the only rent space in that prime area to certain very high fashion names. In terms of fashion, it is one of the very best malls in the country. That area of the mall has exclusive stores like Salvatore Ferragamo, Chanel, Armani, etc. They will only rent those spaces to people like that. Even if you have the money, they will not rent those spaces to you unless you are a brand on that level.

    The point is this, liberal economists such as the Manchester Liberals advocated a free market as a way of abolishing unjust discrimination, because they argued that those who are trying to sell a particular item do not care if the person is black, white, European or African, as long as the customer can pay the price of the item. What I am saying is that capitalism does not guarantee that. Merchants will still discriminate, based on who you are.

  7. #547
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Oh, so you agree With him there? Capitalism has internal contradictison that lead it into constant crisis and ultimately collapse?

    Ok, and Yeah, it is obvious when you actually study it.
    Yes I agree that unregulated systems lead to chaos. Even Americas founders knew that, and even put it in the US Constitution (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3).

  8. #548
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Yes I did demonstrate it. Again, I really don't think you understand what is going on at all. The leasing agent told me point blank that the only rent space in that prime area to certain very high fashion names. In terms of fashion, it is one of the very best malls in the country. That area of the mall has exclusive stores like Salvatore Ferragamo, Chanel, Armani, etc. They will only rent those spaces to people like that. Even if you have the money, they will not rent those spaces to you unless you are a brand on that level.

    The point is this, liberal economists such as the Manchester Liberals advocated a free market as a way of abolishing unjust discrimination, because they argued that those who are trying to sell a particular item do not care if the person is black, white, European or African, as long as the customer can pay the price of the item. What I am saying is that capitalism does not guarantee that. Merchants will still discriminate, based on who you are.
    One moment you are telling me that a land management company is discriminating against you as a merchant, then you change it to merchants discriminating against customers. Either way the mall has the liberty to refuse signing a lease with you based on its own business reasons, as long as those reasons are legal. You said that they wouldnt take your money because you were not on the 'good' or 'A' list of businesses that they want. They didnt discriminate at all they made a business decision. You are free to build your own mall and allow any business in it yourself. and you are free to go to another mall perhaps one that isnt out of your businesses abilities. You stated that said mall was elite and listed the elite types of clients that are in it, your business wasnt one of those types so now you are whining that you were discrimanated aginst because you couldnt get into a mall that wouldnt allow businesses way beyond your means as well.


    Capitalism cannot ever govern anything, that takes governments. That is usually the mistake that Socialists make about Capitalism, they assume that capitalism is a type of government like Socialism is a type of government. But Capitalism isnt a type of government so therefor it cannot govern. Governments govern commerce and a point that Marx liked to ignore. Marx liked to say that Capitalism itself will lead to this and that, but he doesnt include that fact that it is itself a government. Its like saying that a school full of kids will lead to the lord of the flies. Why yes it probably would if it wasnt for the school staff.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    One moment you are telling me that a land management company is discriminating against you as a merchant, then you change it to merchants discriminating against customers. Either way the mall has the liberty to refuse signing a lease with you based on its own business reasons, as long as those reasons are legal. You said that they wouldnt take your money because you were not on the 'good' or 'A' list of businesses that they want.
    Unfortunately I cannot give reading comprehension lessons. Sorry about that. When I say merchants I mean anyone selling something that someone else buys, including space in a mall. What I said was you have to be a name on the level of Chanel before they will rent certain space to you. That is discrimination. It is not racial discrimination. It is a type of class discrimination.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Capitalism cannot ever govern anything, that takes governments.
    Again, it has been argued by liberal intellectuals that a free market will do away with discrimination because vendors will sell to whomever has money. Capitalism, as I have demonstrated does not guarantee that.

  10. #550
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Unfortunately I cannot give reading comprehension lessons. Sorry about that. When I say merchants I mean anyone selling something that someone else buys, including space in a mall. What I said was you have to be a name on the level of Chanel before they will rent certain space to you. That is discrimination. It is not racial discrimination. It is a type of class discrimination.
    Being fallacious will get you nowhere fast. And there isnt anything discriminatory or wrong with needing to be on the Chanel level. Your method of achieving that status as a business is to promote your product and work your way up to being able to put a store in a mall like that.

    Chanel was founded in 1909, and is very known world wide. What makes you think that you deserve the same recognition as such a well established business? If you want that level of product recognition then you need to spend a great deal of money on advertising your product.

    I like how you have attacked me personally accusing me of knowing nothing about the retail trade. Yet you seem ignorant of the basics of the retail trade. So much that I doubt that you have actually tried to LEASE space in a mall. You do realize that you lease space in a mall not rent it right? Also some of those leased spaces in the malls were built for that business in the first place. Most of those big names bought their leases when the mall was built. ANd those that were not there at the beginning were vetted for their ability to draw people to the mall. That is called marketing your lease space. There isnt any discrimination in determining that one business would draw more customers than another competing business. If you are oblivious to those entry level business marketing strategies then the mall did you a service by denying your application to lease a space at their mall. Why were you even thinking about competing with those damn capitalist elitists in the first place? Were you going to become one of them?


    Again, it has been argued by liberal intellectuals that a free market will do away with discrimination because vendors will sell to whomever has money. Capitalism, as I have demonstrated does not guarantee that.
    I dont care what "liberal intellectuals" think about so called free markets. I am not a "liberal intellectual" so therefor feel no need to defend their views. Perhaps you should go talk to those "liberal intellectuals"?

    But still capitalism doesnt guarantee anything because it isnt something that can govern. Socialism is a type of government capitalism is not. All governments regulate capitalism with economical rules and regulations. Only extremists want a unfettered free market. Marx was wrong capitalism can be and is regulated. Though I agree that more regulations need to be put in place as things stand today. But not Marxist regulations that are nothing more than a attempt to topple capitalism and replace it (and our government) with Socialism. The reason that Marxists attack the wealthy is because that is what Karl Marx designed as a method to destroy capitalism which stood in the way of his ideological type of government. Karl Marx created a protagonist ideology that has no tolerance for any diversity of thought. Ask any Marxist if capitalism is ok and they will go on about how it should not be tolerated. Ask a Marxist if there could be something better than Marx's designs and they will tell you no. The Marxist school of thought is aimed at discriminating against anything other than what is on the Left. that alone disqualifies Karl Marx as a philosopher of any worth.

    Rationally one should keep a open mind for something more advanced than what one knows now. Follower's of Karl Marx do no such thing. Its either follow Marx's ideology or they will bring war into the picture. Meaning that to Karl Marx followers either capitalism will be as he said or they will make it that way.

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