View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  1. #481
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    Re: Why fill your head with foolishness?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I know they were all about Capitalism ... which is why they are relevant and interesting .... since a lot of the stuff he wrote about capitalism turned out to be true.
    Nonsense.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    1. Yea but its called MARXism because its all about Karl Marx's philosophies. Marx's philosophies were not limited to just critiquing Capitalism.

    2. The question was if Marx was right about Capitalism. Marxisms extremist portrayal of Capitalism is no different than McCarthyism's extremist portrayal of Communism.

    3. If Marx's predictions were correct why is it that all of his predictions are not evident in this modern world? The reason is that Marx was talking about unfettered/uncontrolled/unregulated crony Capitalism. He wasnt talking about a Capitalism that is controlled with a structure that eliminates the ability for people to exploit the system. His entire mounted around his assertion that democracy would die if Capitalism was the economic system of choice. Marxists assert the philosophies of Marx and espouse massive bias when viewing the state on the Union. Marxists will insist that there isnt any democracy in America so they can hold their left fist in the air and yell REVOLUTION. The idea is to scare the common citizen with all of their Marxist theories and so on. Some even try and claim that they are only concerned with the economic structure, as if no one can pick up the Communist Manifesto and read it. Marxism is Marxism whether one individual like yourself makes a claim that they are not involved in supporting the goals of Marxism. The point of Marxism is to reach a goal and that goal is to replace Capitalism with Socialism/Communism. That is what people mean when they talk about Marxism. Marxism isnt a benign study of economics, its a method to oust governments and replace them with the philosophies of Marx and the political structures that Marx and Engles designed.

    BTW the word tends isnt definite its very subjective. Extrapolating historical trends can be misleading (citing data and making predictions). So Marx talked in a way that played on emotions and he exploited those emotions of the people most affected by corruption, the worker. It boils down to manipulation of personal pride. No one wants someone above them controlling them in any sort of way. So Marx used that psychology to attack the power structure of his world. In order for Marx's philosophies to be used he had to get rid of the competing cultures that would destroy any chance of his ideas coming to fruit. The best way of achieving that goal was to turn the citizens against their own governments and convince the worker that things will be grand under Socialism and later Communism. Good little manipulated sheep.

    I cannot ignore the history and the methods of Marxism, its just too much bull**** that makes whatever Marx got right irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
    1. Ok, but, I'm not tied to everything Marx wrote .... I'm tied to what I agree With and waht makes sense and what is relevant.

    2. No it wasn't McCarthy didn't have a portrayal of communism, he didn't Write a book analysing it, he just called People communists .... Capitalism had an actual analytical critique of Capitalism, which didn't bash capitalism (he praised capitalism), but it pointed out internal contradictions in capitalism.

    3. They are evident ....
    The falling rate of profit has effected both agriculture and manufacturing.
    Capitalism is almost entirely dependant on debt and basically run by Finance Capital
    The gap between Rich and poor is widening With no end in sight
    Capitalism requires compound grown every year to not og into crisis (of about 3%)
    And so on and so on.

    Marx was assuming a relatively unfettered capitalism.

    As far as whether or not there is any Democracy in America, all you need to do is compare Public opinion and Public policy, and then the interests of major Corporations, and the buisiness class and Public policy to see that the US is basically a plutocracy.

    The Marxism I CARE about is the study of economics, I want to change the system, but I don't think Marx's solutions (the small amount he wrote on potential solutions) are good ones at all, but that doesn't mean his analysis was wrong.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    1. Ok, but, I'm not tied to everything Marx wrote .... I'm tied to what I agree With and waht makes sense and what is relevant.

    2. No it wasn't McCarthy didn't have a portrayal of communism, he didn't Write a book analysing it, he just called People communists .... Capitalism had an actual analytical critique of Capitalism, which didn't bash capitalism (he praised capitalism), but it pointed out internal contradictions in capitalism.

    3. They are evident ....
    The falling rate of profit has effected both agriculture and manufacturing.
    Capitalism is almost entirely dependant on debt and basically run by Finance Capital
    The gap between Rich and poor is widening With no end in sight
    Capitalism requires compound grown every year to not og into crisis (of about 3%)
    And so on and so on.

    Marx was assuming a relatively unfettered capitalism.

    As far as whether or not there is any Democracy in America, all you need to do is compare Public opinion and Public policy, and then the interests of major Corporations, and the buisiness class and Public policy to see that the US is basically a plutocracy.

    The Marxism I CARE about is the study of economics, I want to change the system, but I don't think Marx's solutions (the small amount he wrote on potential solutions) are good ones at all, but that doesn't mean his analysis was wrong.
    The problem isnt Capitalism itself its corruption and miss management. Falling rates in profit, banking, wealth gaps etc, while all are big concerns cannot be attributed to Capitalism itself but to the people involved in running it and managing it. The only way that anyone can apply Marx's concepts to reality is by conforming to Marx's philosophies. An objective rational reading of Marx shows Marx to be a bit fanatic. He jumps from one assumption to the next without confirming anything. Ten assumptions down the road and Marx isnt even relevant anymore he is just babbling along in fantasy world. You can defend him if you want, or believe that he was right, but there is no need to try and force people to believe his crap.


    Any system of any type can become corrupt. Marx was unable to differentiate between elements of a economical system and corruptible forces. Anti-Capitalists are extremely biased and will believe that its the system because they want it to be the system, so they attribute everything that has gone wrong to Captalism rather than where blame should be put, on the people who are ****ing everything up. The reason that Marx engaged in the Communist Manifesto was to offer a solution to the fake circumstances that he created. You cant analyse "Capital" without analyzing why it was written, its purpose. To do so is intellectually dishonest and falls short of rational analysis of the document.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I thought about something today. I was at a mall that has very high end stores that cater to wealthy clients. When I was starting my business I went to the office and talked to someone about leasing some space. That charge so much for rent, that it forms an enormous barrier of entry in the first place. But this is the thing that got me. The really good spots, they won't rent to you, even if you have enough money. You have to be one of the established designer brands before they will lease space to you. I was thinking, back when those people were establishing themselves, black folks were not even allowed in the game.
    Hilarious. At least you're not assuming that it's because you're black.

    We call that progress around here.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I thought about something today. I was at a mall that has very high end stores that cater to wealthy clients. When I was starting my business I went to the office and talked to someone about leasing some space. That charge so much for rent, that it forms an enormous barrier of entry in the first place. But this is the thing that got me. The really good spots, they won't rent to you, even if you have enough money. You have to be one of the established designer brands before they will lease space to you. I was thinking, back when those people were establishing themselves, black folks were not even allowed in the game.
    You are assuming that all of the good places in Malls are leased to old companies. Malls are trendy places and property managers want clients that bring in the most people. Hell most malls around today are from the 80's at the oldest ,if they still exist and havent been completely replaced. More probable is that most malls are form the 90's and newer. I am pretty sure that "black folks" were in the game then.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The problem isnt Capitalism itself its corruption and miss management. Falling rates in profit, banking, wealth gaps etc, while all are big concerns cannot be attributed to Capitalism itself but to the people involved in running it and managing it. The only way that anyone can apply Marx's concepts to reality is by conforming to Marx's philosophies. An objective rational reading of Marx shows Marx to be a bit fanatic. He jumps from one assumption to the next without confirming anything. Ten assumptions down the road and Marx isnt even relevant anymore he is just babbling along in fantasy world. You can defend him if you want, or believe that he was right, but there is no need to try and force people to believe his crap.


    Any system of any type can become corrupt. Marx was unable to differentiate between elements of a economical system and corruptible forces. Anti-Capitalists are extremely biased and will believe that its the system because they want it to be the system, so they attribute everything that has gone wrong to Captalism rather than where blame should be put, on the people who are ****ing everything up. The reason that Marx engaged in the Communist Manifesto was to offer a solution to the fake circumstances that he created. You cant analyse "Capital" without analyzing why it was written, its purpose. To do so is intellectually dishonest and falls short of rational analysis of the document.
    So basically Marx JUST got Lucky because thankfully it's just all the People running capitalism making his predictions come to pass ... not the actual internal contradictions.

    The only assumptions Marx uses is Calssical economics set up by People like Adam Smith and Ricardo.

    Capital was written after the communist manifesto.

    So far you haven't critiqued ANY of his actual analysis ....

    And no, it's not the People, it's the system, different People have been running the system for the last 100 years, but the trends are the same, because the problems are internal to capitalism itself.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    It's not that simple. There's usually no complete right or wrong with a person's philosophy or theories. There's some truth there, and some things not true.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    So basically Marx JUST got Lucky because thankfully it's just all the People running capitalism making his predictions come to pass ... not the actual internal contradictions.

    The only assumptions Marx uses is Calssical economics set up by People like Adam Smith and Ricardo.

    Capital was written after the communist manifesto.

    So far you haven't critiqued ANY of his actual analysis ....

    And no, it's not the People, it's the system, different People have been running the system for the last 100 years, but the trends are the same, because the problems are internal to capitalism itself.
    Marx did not write Capital then assert it has nothing to do with the Communist manifesto. Capital was written as an excuse for the Communist Manifesto. In order for Marx's pipe dream philosophies to have relevance, Marx had to figure out how to destroy what stood in his way. What stood in his was reality. And the only way to destroy reality was to redefine reality. So Marx set out on that task by redefining words and concepts and insisting that his philosophies were the only explanation and the only solution. In order to believe Marx's philosophies you have to suspend disbelief and have a great dislike for the world around you.

    Marx preyed on the weak, the poor, the misfits just as any good cultists would. Marx asserted that either you were for his philosophies or you supported those that oppress you. So anything that he happened to be correct about does not matter anymore than what Hitler exploited to get his way.

    SO you can keep telling me that Marx was right about Capitalism until you are blue in the face but it doesnt matter what Marx said or did. I am not a Adam Smith and Ricardo fan boy so you trying to use that angle fell flat on its face.

    But no you are not going to sucker me into debating the crap philosophies of a babbling idiot.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Marx asserted that either you were for his philosophies or you supported those that oppress you. So anything that he happened to be correct about does not matter anymore than what Hitler exploited to get his way.



  10. #490
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    1. Marx did not write Capital then assert it has nothing to do with the Communist manifesto. Capital was written as an excuse for the Communist Manifesto. In order for Marx's pipe dream philosophies to have relevance, Marx had to figure out how to destroy what stood in his way. What stood in his was reality. And the only way to destroy reality was to redefine reality. So Marx set out on that task by redefining words and concepts and insisting that his philosophies were the only explanation and the only solution. In order to believe Marx's philosophies you have to suspend disbelief and have a great dislike for the world around you.

    2. Marx preyed on the weak, the poor, the misfits just as any good cultists would. Marx asserted that either you were for his philosophies or you supported those that oppress you. So anything that he happened to be correct about does not matter anymore than what Hitler exploited to get his way.

    3. SO you can keep telling me that Marx was right about Capitalism until you are blue in the face but it doesnt matter what Marx said or did. I am not a Adam Smith and Ricardo fan boy so you trying to use that angle fell flat on its face.

    But no you are not going to sucker me into debating the crap philosophies of a babbling idiot.
    1. What did you ask Marx? This is Complete nonsense, the COmmunist Manifesto was written as a political pamphlet years before Kapital, Kapital was an economic volume describing how capitalism Works. You're just making **** up here, making up conspiracy theories, instead of ACTUALLY dealing With the analysis IN Capital ... something I never see neo-liberals actually do.

    2. Preyed on them? What are you talking about? '

    3. I can tell you that Marx was right, and I can give examples, can you give any examples on Capital or where he was wrong? (I can), or can you show that his overall thesis was wrong? So far you haven't shown anything other than making ad hominum attacks on him.

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