View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  1. #391
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    The truth is the truth. Just don't expect to read it in an article or a book by Karl Marx.
    Society's losers turn to those who push Marx as an apologist for their failures.
    You keep repeating this mantra about losers and Marx. I'm really not interested in some weak minded propaganda. If you have something specific that you want to discuss about something that Marx has said, please do so. Otherwise, you can play games with someone else.

  2. #392
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    ??????????????????????????????
    la Huey Newton.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  3. #393
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    la Huey Newton.
    Oh! OK!!

    No. I'm not into these racial based things, no matter what the source or good intentions.

  4. #394
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    He was right about some things, wrong about others. His critique of capitalism, for the most part is sound.
    The hell it is.

    By is definition Capitalism should have reached its critcal velocity decades ago.

    As profit increased and produced monopolies and a Oligarchy of the rich and few.

    He guessed Capitalism would fissile out when more and more Capitalist lost their jobs and joined the oppressed class of the unemployed workers.

    He was a idiot.

    His attributed the value of a shoe, shirt ,book, etc by the amount of Labor that it took to make the object.

    He was wrong about Capitalism driving down wages to a level that barely sustained the workers.

    How about you spend a whole 3 minutes on Marx before coming in here and making dump statements.

    All I can say is bad economies in general really bring out the crazy people and the radicals in a society.

    Always have always will.

    Think Germany a few years after the Versailles treaty.

  5. #395
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The hell it is.

    By is definition Capitalism should have reached its critcal velocity decades ago.

    As profit increased and produced monopolies and a Oligarchy of the rich and few.

    He guessed Capitalism would fissile out when more and more Capitalist lost their jobs and joined the oppressed class of the unemployed workers.

    He was a idiot.

    His attributed the value of a shoe, shirt ,book, etc by the amount of Labor that it took to make the object.

    He was wrong about Capitalism driving down wages to a level that barely sustained the workers.

    How about you spend a whole 3 minutes on Marx before coming in here and making dump statements.

    All I can say is bad economies in general really bring out the crazy people and the radicals in a society.

    Always have always will.

    Think Germany a few years after the Versailles treaty.
    I say the hell he was right. I said he was wrong about some things. His critique of capitalism is basically sound, not necessarily his predictions. He was right about wages. Capitalism has been keep alive by the enormous expansion of credit. The debt of the US public and private is 50 trillion dollars. If at this moment you demanded that everyone pay all the debt that they owe and took everything that they had to collect the money that they owed, most people would be destitute.

    Perhaps you may impress some with the picture of a devil, but I spent time reading and thinking about it. If you want to discuss, do so in a respectful tone.

  6. #396
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I say the hell he was right. I said he was wrong about some things. His critique of capitalism is basically sound, not necessarily his predictions. He was right about wages. Capitalism has been keep alive by the enormous expansion of credit. The debt of the US public and private is 50 trillion dollars. If at this moment you demanded that everyone pay all the debt that they owe and took everything that they had to collect the money that they owed, most people would be destitute.

    Perhaps you may impress some with the picture of a devil, but I spent time reading and thinking about it. If you want to discuss, do so in a respectful tone.
    No he was NOT right about wages.

    Marx didn't think in specific terms, he spoke in generalites.

    His comments on wages bottoming out were in reference to Capitalisms demise.

    ALL wages exept for the few Oligarchs would plummet down to levels that barely sustained the working class.

    Thats not the case and will never be the case.

    And why exactly would every creditor instantly call on their outstanding accounts to be payed off ?

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    2008 Proves he was right..................enough said.
    Free Trade Doesn't Work: What Should Replace It and Why,
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    https://www.numbersusa.org/

  8. #398
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
    2008 Proves he was right..................enough said.
    What exactly does 2008 prove?

  9. #399
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    No he was NOT right about wages.

    Marx didn't think in specific terms, he spoke in generalites.

    His comments on wages bottoming out were in reference to Capitalisms demise.

    ALL wages exept for the few Oligarchs would plummet down to levels that barely sustained the working class.

    Thats not the case and will never be the case.
    If we are going to have a meaningful discussion, we are going to have to understand exactly what it is we are referring to. I'm going refer to exactly what Marx said that I feel is correct about wages. In an earlier post, I provided the following quote from Marx:

    Contradiction in the capitalist mode of production. The workers are important for the market as buyers of commodities. But as sellers of their commodity - labor-power - capitalist society has the tendency to restrict them to their minimum price.
    That observation is correct. In that regard, Marx said in "Wage-Labor and Capital"

    The share of (profit) increases in the same proportion in which the share of labor (wages) falls, and vice versa. Profit rises in the same degree in which wages fall; it falls in the same degree in which wages rise.
    Furthermore with regards to wages Marx said the following:

    Furthermore, to the same degree in which the division of labor increases, is the labor simplified. The special skill of the laborer becomes worthless. He becomes transformed into a simple monotonous force of production, with neither physical nor mental elasticity. His work becomes accessible to all; therefore competitors press upon him from all sides. Moreover, it must be remembered that the more simple, the more easily learned the work is, so much the less is its cost to production, the expense of its acquisition, nd so much the lower must the wages sink -- for, like the price of any other commodity, they are determined by the cost of production.
    .................
    The laborer seeks to maintain the total of his wages for a given time by performing more labor, either by working a great number of hours, or by accomplishing more in the same number of hours. Thus, urged on by want, he himself multiplies the disastrous effects of division of labor. The result is: the more he works, the less wages he receives. And for this simple reason: the more he works, the more he competes against his fellow workmen, the more he compels them to compete against him, and to offer themselves on the same wretched conditions as he does; so that, in the last analysis, he competes against himself as a member of the working class.
    To see this, consider the following. Previously, creating contour lines from maps of terrain elevation was a skill that was done manually by hand. Now it is something that is done by computer, and anyone that can use a computer can, with little guidance, do it. Now let's suppose that when it was a specialized skill that was done by hand a person was paid $50,000 a year. Now, that it is done by computer, someone could be paid $25,000 a year to do the job. In order to compensate, the person who was paid $50,000 a year must either work double the time or become twice as efficient as the $25,000 a year person. Thus for the same money, he is essentially working twice as hard, which means he is making less. Not only that, but he is creating conditions that will make his competition work harder, which puts more pressure on himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    And why exactly would every creditor instantly call on their outstanding accounts to be payed off ?
    You are missing the point. The point was that the current capitalist system is being sustained through the enormous extension of credit.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You are missing the point. The point was that the current capitalist system is being sustained through the enormous extension of credit.
    No. That is crony capitalism which is not capitalism.

    I am a bit tired of Marxists. You guys are so tedious.

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