View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  1. #301
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    The very concept of something being "out of control" is inherently an opinion. So I have no idea what you are talking about.
    What you stated, was stated as a definitive, not simply as an opinion.
    Example: Initial statement.
    "When you spend more on defense than the next ten nations COMBINED then something needs to change."
    As I stated in reply; No it doesn't.



    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    ...And how much do you believe is enough to "project our power?" Is giving a number really that difficult for you to do?
    I have already answered your question.
    It like you do not realize that the amount is constantly in flux. Duh!
    That is the amount we need. As much as we need to project our power and support our interests and continue research and development so we can keep it that way for a good long time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    That has nothing to do with that part of the discussion.
    Yeah, it most definitely is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Ranting about your ideology is exactly what you are doing. You have a lot of cajones to criticize someone else for promoting their own ideology (isn't that the point of Debate Politics, anyways?)


    The way it is is not my ideology.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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  2. #302
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Let's suppose that slavery was legal in Saudi Arabia. And let's suppose King Abdullah purchased slaves in Saudi Arabia, came to live in the United States, and brought his slaves with him. In the United States, King Abdullah cannot claim those persons to be his property, because the 13th amendment says that slavery does not exist in the United States.

    i am going to use your example and show why you are wrong.


    the 13th amendment to the constitution has 2 clauses, the 1st making a general statement, stating that slavery shall not exist in the u.s.....this statement has no power to do anything.....its mute.

    it is clause 2 that has the power..."Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    if the king were to come to america with slaves, and the congress or a state has NOT enacted a law against slavery, you cannot touch the king and his property......because no law has been created, to make slavery illegal, it takes criminal law to make slavery a crime.

    the 13th amendment with its 1st clause has no power to do anything to a person, it takes legislation from the 2nd clause.....to back up the 1st clause....

    which is why the 13th amendment does not apply to people.....it is federal law which is authorized by the 2nd clause that applies to people........."federal criminal law".

  3. #303
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Dishonest argument. Not even comparable.
    I'm sorry you cannot see how it destroys your argument that ownership is always a moral good.

    Which isn't true , and why your ideology is stupid.
    You are debating like a ten year old.

    Yeah, it is.
    No, it isn't. I proved it with a link in the other thread.

    You haven't proven it isn't.
    I have given a clear example of why it is bad. If you want more examples then here you go.


    You haven't proven your claims at all. All you have done is provide bs opinions.
    I provide links and studies. You have provided nothing but an overabundance of emoticons




    Yes it is counter to ownership. That stands regardless of your beliefs.
    It runs counter to PRIVATE ownership. You do at least realize there are different kinds of ownership, right?


    It isn't common wealth. That is your fault for identifying it as such.
    Common wealth or common property has been identified by economists/political thinkers including Adam Smith, Roderick T Long, JS Mill, etc. It is not something I made up.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  4. #304
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I'm sorry you cannot see how it destroys your argument that ownership is always a moral good.
    Really?
    Interesting, as I feel sorry for you not understanding your ideas are crap and for trying to put words into my mouth I did not say.
    Just more dishonesty from you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    You are debating like a ten year old.
    iLOL
    If so, I am clearly giving your juvenile arguments more than they deserve.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    No, it isn't. I proved it with a link in the other thread.
    No you didn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I have given a clear example of why it is bad. If you want more examples then here you go.

    That isn't proof. That is opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I provide links and studies. You have provided nothing but an overabundance of emoticons
    No, you provided bs opinion.
    Nothing more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    It runs counter to PRIVATE ownership.
    Nough said.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Common wealth or common property has been identified by economists/political thinkers including Adam Smith, Roderick T Long, JS Mill, etc. It is not something I made up.
    I do not care what they made up. They are irrelevant as the ideology is idiotic.
    Last edited by Excon; 05-21-14 at 04:31 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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  5. #305
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Really?
    You sectioned it off to reply to it separately when you know damn well is was stated again in with what was said above.
    It applies to that.
    There is no theft.
    Your comparison was

    So again, as already stated.
    They are profiting. That is a good thing. They also risk losing and do lose.
    That should not be discouraged.


    Way not to recognize it in context of what was said.
    I have responded to the bolded portion. I am not going to repeat myself.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  6. #306
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    What you stated, was stated as a definitive, not simply as an opinion.
    Example: Initial statement.
    "When you spend more on defense than the next ten nations COMBINED then something needs to change."
    As I stated in reply; No it doesn't.
    Give me a break. Anyone could tell you that was a statement of opinion. You do the same exact thing with your, "NO YOUR WRONG! BS! ETC."


    I have already answered your question.
    It like you do not realize that the amount is constantly in flux. Duh!
    Lol, I never said that dollar amount has to be fixed. But I can see you aren't going to give me a ballpark figure so I'm going to move on.




    The way it is is not my ideology.
    You really have no clue. Anyone can tell you how it is. Defending the status quo IS your ideology.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  7. #307
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I have responded to the bolded portion. I am not going to repeat myself.
    And you were wrong then as you are now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Give me a break. Anyone could tell you that was a statement of opinion. You do the same exact thing with your, "NO YOUR WRONG! BS! ETC."
    Au contraire. You are wrong because you are wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Lol, I never said that dollar amount has to be fixed. But I can see you aren't going to give me a ballpark figure so I'm going to move on.
    Yes do move on. My reply was sufficient.
    An exact figure is not needed, nor can it be given as this countries needs are in flux.
    As much as we need to project our power and support our interests and continue research and development and so we can keep it that way for a good long time. That is the amount we need.



    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    You really have no clue. Anyone can tell you how it is. Defending the status quo IS your ideology.
    No, you have no clue.
    I am against property tax which you already know, so no, I am not defending the status quo. So stop telling untruths.
    What I am doing is blasting your ridiculous ideology. Which is a little different than supporting the status quo.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  8. #308
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i am going to use your example and show why you are wrong.


    the 13th amendment to the constitution has 2 clauses, the 1st making a general statement, stating that slavery shall not exist in the u.s.....this statement has no power to do anything.....its mute.

    it is clause 2 that has the power..."Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    if the king were to come to america with slaves, and the congress or a state has NOT enacted a law against slavery, you cannot touch the king and his property......because no law has been created, to make slavery illegal, it takes criminal law to make slavery a crime.

    the 13th amendment with its 1st clause has no power to do anything to a person, it takes legislation from the 2nd clause.....to back up the 1st clause....

    which is why the 13th amendment does not apply to people.....it is federal law which is authorized by the 2nd clause that applies to people........."federal criminal law".
    The point is that they are not his property in the United States. Property ownership involves demonstrating proof of ownership to the local sovereign. And that's not possible in the United States because the 13th amendment has made an absolute declaration that slavery does not exist. As a result, the King cannot claim that slaves to be his property in the United States and he can be prosecuted for violations of criminal statutes such as forced labor.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The point is that they are not his property in the United States. Property ownership involves demonstrating proof of ownership to the local sovereign. And that's not possible in the United States because the 13th amendment has made an absolute declaration that slavery does not exist. As a result, the King cannot claim that slaves to be his property in the United States and he can be prosecuted for violations of criminal statutes such as forced labor.
    you just stated prosecuted under criminal statutes......that is what the 2nd clause of the 13th authorizes congress to create on the issue of slavery........federal laws....IE. federal statutes

    so a person does not adhere to constitutional law.....they adhere to federal law........prosecuted by federal statutes.

    the 13th does not apply to citizens, federal law applies to citizens, you cannot use constitutional law to arrest and try people in court.

  10. #310
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you just stated prosecuted under criminal statutes......that is what the 2nd clause of the 13th authorizes congress to create on the issue of slavery........federal laws....IE. federal statutes

    so a person does not adhere to constitutional law.....they adhere to federal law........prosecuted by federal statutes.

    the 13th does not apply to citizens, federal law applies to citizens, you cannot use constitutional law to arrest and try people in court.
    You missed the part about not being able to claim slaves as property. That is a direct result of the 13th amendment.

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