View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

Voters
94. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    38 40.43%
  • No

    56 59.57%
Page 30 of 56 FirstFirst ... 20282930313240 ... LastLast
Results 291 to 300 of 555

Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  1. #291
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by mildsteel View Post
    wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!

    No one can claim another person to be his property in the united states. No one!!!! This is directly because of the 13th amendment.

    You want to put forward the absurd notion that us code defines slavery as forced labor. But the fact is that you don't have to be someone's property to be forced to do labor for them. Not only that, but what if the slave was not being forced to do the labor? What if the slave wanted to be a slave and be someone's property? In that case the labor is not forced at all, but still because the 13th amendment applies to everyone, no one can claim someone else to be his property. So even if someone wanted to be the slave of another person, thus resulting in an absence of forced labor, it is not possible because the 13th amendment applies to all, individuals included. And if you say that's absurd because no one would want to be a slave, there were actually a few blacks who were interviewed after the civil war who stated that they preferred slavery.
    did not say that.....i said 13th does not apply to people, because you cannot build a case against a person or arrest them using the 13th, you have to have federal law, or state law to do that.

  2. #292
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    did not say that.....i said 13th does not apply to people, because you cannot build a case against a person or arrest them using the 13th, you have to have federal law, or state law to do that.
    That's ok. But what I'm saying is that the 13th amendment does apply to individuals because as a result of that amendment, no one can claim another person to be his property.

  3. #293
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That's ok. But what I'm saying is that the 13th amendment does apply to individuals because as a result of that amendment, no one can claim another person to be his property.
    what do you mean "claim"

  4. #294
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    what do you mean "claim"
    Let's suppose that slavery was legal in Saudi Arabia. And let's suppose King Abdullah purchased slaves in Saudi Arabia, came to live in the United States, and brought his slaves with him. In the United States, King Abdullah cannot claim those persons to be his property, because the 13th amendment says that slavery does not exist in the United States.

  5. #295
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Let's say a man holds the title to a site.
    Owns. End of story.
    Not your business.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    False. While some do pay the equivalent (or more) of the full value thanks to two-tiered property taxes, not everyone pays the full value. You really think the owner of the empty lot next to the skyscraper is paying its full value in tax?
    Yes what you said is false.
    The tax that is paid is determined by the taxing authority. The value is assessed by them, not you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Sales tax is bad for the local economy.
    More ideological bs!


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    It is true. The wealth generated through our infrastructure is crystallized and privatized to benefit a few individuals when it should be benefiting the community as a whole. This results in greater wealth disparity which forces politicians to expand on assistance programs and raise our taxes.
    No it isn't true.
    This in nothing more than more of your ideological bs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Who made the Earth? Air? Space? Natural resources? Nobody. Legally it can be owned, sure, but not naturally the same way we own the house we built. I believe as Thomas Paine believed: it is nevertheless true that it is value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property.
    I do not care whom you believe like. You are still wrong.
    Paying taxes on something that is your property, you know, that "property" you already paid taxes on, is counter ownership.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    A thief also profits when he steals from the house he burglarizes. Profit in itself is not always good.
    Holy ****!

    There has been no theft.
    Your comparison is

    So again, as already stated.
    They are profiting. That is a good thing. They also risk losing and do lose.
    That should not be discouraged.



    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I was using facts to support my opinion. Whether you think spending more than the next ten top military nations is not a sign that it is out of control, that is your prerogative. Stop acting like your opinions are facts.
    No you weren't.
    You provided a fact and stated an opinion.
    The fact doesn't support your opinion at all.
    All it showed was our spending as compared to others.
    It does not show any out of control military spending.
    That is nothing more than your false claim.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Lol, that is not an answer. I'm looking for a $ amount. Even if one believed we need to "project our power" over others, opinions on how much spending that requires would vary widely.
    Yes it is an answer.
    All it is is that you do not like it.
    Too bad.
    That is the amount we need. As much as we need to project our power and support our interests and continue research and development so we can keep it that way for a good long time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Wow, crow calling the raven black.
    Not at all.
    There is a difference between what is already in play and the way you want things to be.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  6. #296
    Sage
    Geoist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    9,835

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Owns. End of story.
    Not your business.
    Just as it is none of my business when a master owns a slave?

    As a geoist, I have a different belief on ownership: that which you make you keep. But economic value is something which society or natures creates. Therefore, I believe that wealth belongs to the whole community rather than a few speculators/landowners.

    Yes what you said is false.
    The tax that is paid is determined by the taxing authority. The value is assessed by them, not you.
    Lol, assessing the value is not the same thing as taxing the full land value.

    More ideological bs!
    You think sales tax is good for the local economy?

    No it isn't true.
    This in nothing more than more of your ideological bs.
    I have supported my claims with links and studies. You have provided nothing but your vitriol and closed-mindedness.

    I do not care whom you believe like. You are still wrong.
    And I believe you're wrong for thinking I'm wrong.

    Paying taxes on something that is your property, you know, that "property" you already paid taxes on, is counter ownership.
    It is not counter ownership. As I stated before, I believe the community owns the land value.

    Holy ****!

    There has been no theft.
    When the common wealth goes to only a few hands and not everyone that is theft in my view.


    So again, as already stated.
    They are profiting. That is a good thing. They also risk losing and do lose.
    That should not be discouraged.
    Why are you repeating what I already responded to?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  7. #297
    Sage
    Geoist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    9,835

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No you weren't.
    You provided a fact and stated an opinion.
    The fact doesn't support your opinion at all.
    Depends on one's interpretation of the fact.

    All it showed was our spending as compared to others.
    It does not show any out of control military spending.
    The very concept of something being "out of control" is inherently an opinion. So I have no idea what you are talking about.


    Yes it is an answer.
    All it is is that you do not like it.
    Too bad.
    That is the amount we need. As much as we need to project our power and support our interests and continue research and development so we can keep it that way for a good long time.
    ...And how much do you believe is enough to "project our power?" Is giving a number really that difficult for you to do?

    Not at all.
    There is a difference between what is already in play and the way you want things to be.
    That has nothing to do with that part of the discussion.

    Ranting about your ideology is exactly what you are doing. You have a lot of cajones to criticize someone else for promoting their own ideology (isn't that the point of Debate Politics, anyways?)
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  8. #298
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Goldsboro,PA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,595
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    No vote, as usual, I detest the lack of the option "none of the above" .Very similar to the communist mistake of repression. I feel that Mr Marx was partially correct...but that the real problem is one of things being out of balance...
    To prevent poverty, we need far better education , including population control....or, we can choose China's method of control...
    I have yet to really read any of the previous posts, but, Geoist...my philosophy is that the government should own the land, but not the improvements on that land. What is necessary, of course, is a very close relationship between the people and the government...which, today, we have little of...
    Last edited by earthworm; 05-21-14 at 12:52 PM.

  9. #299
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:22 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,262

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Here's an interesting article by George Magnus, former Chief Economist at UBS, the biggest bank in Switzerland



    SO

    Was Karl Marx right about capitalism?
    No, I believe not, though it is rather strenuous to discern, what capitalism is exactly in his statement. 'Das Kapital' was no easy read.

    Possibly you could build an economic model that ceteris paribus ended as Marx predicts. But capitalism is a very imprecise thing. It can be very different from one set of rules to the next. Take capitalism with democracy, with a dictator or with monarchy. The results will be quite different (see among others Calculus of Descent, Tullock and Buchanan). Now you could argue that that is not "pure" capitalism. But if I remember Marx correctly, he predicts that socialism and then communism will follow in the real world.

    Right now it is all the vogue to discuss uneven distribution of earnings (or wealth). That is because since the Cold War ended we have added over 1.5 billion workers to the workforce. As every worker needs a certain amount of capital to make his work at all productive, the owners of capital have seen their income go up, while labor income has stagnated. This type of traverse is always going to cause interest, worry and friction. That is what we are seeing happen and not the fulfillment of prophesy.

  10. #300
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Just as it is none of my business when a master owns a slave?
    Dishonest argument. Not even comparable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    But economic value is something which society or natures creates.
    Which isn't true , and why your ideology is stupid.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    assessing the value is not the same thing as taxing the full land value.
    Yeah, it is.



    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    You think sales tax is good for the local economy?
    You haven't proven it isn't.



    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I have supported my claims with links and studies.
    You haven't proven your claims at all. All you have done is provide bs opinions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    And I believe you're wrong for thinking I'm wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    It is not counter ownership. As I stated before, I believe the community owns the land value.
    Yes it is counter to ownership. That stands regardless of your beliefs.




    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    When the common wealth goes to only a few hands and not everyone that is theft in my view.
    It isn't common wealth. That is your fault for identifying it as such.




    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Why are you repeating what I already responded to?
    Really?
    You sectioned it off to reply to it separately when you know damn well is was stated again in with what was said above.
    It applies to that.
    There is no theft.
    Your comparison was

    So again, as already stated.
    They are profiting. That is a good thing. They also risk losing and do lose.
    That should not be discouraged.


    Way not to recognize it in context of what was said.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

Page 30 of 56 FirstFirst ... 20282930313240 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •