View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  1. #251
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    when this amendment was passed by congress, it outlawed slavery in america.....by just a general statement..it listed no punishment no procedures no specifics, for handing the issue of slavery.

    governments....cannot go to jail, only people can go to jail.

    when a state violates the 13th, they go to court, for a constitutional violation against the people that were harmed, with the people represented by the federal government.

    when a citizen commits slavery,. it is a federal crime, because amendment 13 gives the congress authority to write federal criminal law, with states what the specifics of the law are, and what the punishment will be for the crime.

    so constitutional law,rules when a government violates the constitution, criminal law rules when a person commits a crime of the against another citiznen, or violates a federal power....
    There is no federal statute that sets a punishment for slavery. Why? Because the 13th amendment is an absolute declaration that slavery does not exist in the United States. Period. There is no need of a federal statute to punish the crime of slavery because slavery simply does not exist. It applies to governments as well as individuals. The relevant Supreme Court decision on the matter

    This amendment, ... is undoubtedly self-executing, without any ancillary legislation, so far as its terms are applicable to any existing state of circumstances. By its own unaided force and effect, it abolished slavery and established universal freedom.
    ..........
    the amendment is not a mere prohibition of State laws establishing or upholding slavery, but an absolute declaration that slavery or involuntary servitude shall not exist in any part of the United States.

  2. #252
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    There is no federal statute that sets a punishment for slavery. Why? Because the 13th amendment is an absolute declaration that slavery does not exist in the United States. Period. There is no need of a federal statute to punish the crime of slavery because slavery simply does not exist. It applies to governments as well as individuals. The relevant Supreme Court decision on the matter
    http://www.polarisproject.org/resour...d-federal-laws


    State and Federal Laws


    Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons (TIP), is a modern-day form of slavery. It is a crime under federal and international law; it is also a crime in almost every state in the U.S.

    Federal Anti-Trafficking Laws
    The Trafficking Victims Protection Act (TVPA) of 2000 is the first comprehensive federal law to address trafficking in persons. The law provides a three-pronged approach that includes prevention, protection, and prosecution. The TVPA was reauthorized through the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act (TVPRA) of 2003, 2005, 2008, and 2013.


    Under U.S. federal law, “severe forms of trafficking in persons” includes both sex trafficking and labor trafficking:

    Sex trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for the purposes of a commercial sex act, in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such an act has not attained 18 years of age, (22 USC 7102; 8 CFR 214.11(a)).

    Labor trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purposes of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery, (22 USC 7102).


    U.S. State Department Trafficking in Persons Report 2009. The linked page contains links to the various portions of the report. I recommend first visiting the maps to learn which countries have the highest incidence and most serious forms of slavery and human trafficking. The report also contains a section describing U.S. Government Domestic Anti-Trafficking Efforts, as well as a list of nine Relevant International Conventions prohibiting various forms of human trafficking.

    June 2009 Attorney General's Annual Report to Congress and Assessment of U.S. Government Activities to Combat Trafficking in Persons Fiscal Year 2008, making eight general and several specific recommendations for improving the United States' response to human trafficking, mainly regarding improved coordination among public agencies and increased awareness of the problem within law enforcement and the larger community.

    January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------

    The federal government has enacted a number of laws against slavery and human trafficking, including the following:

    Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons, 18 U.S.C. 1581 et seq., making slavery, the slave trade, and related activities a crime.

    Trafficking Victims Protection Act (TVPA), 22 U.S.C. 7101 et seq. The introductory section to this law states:

    The purposes of this chapter are to combat trafficking in persons, a contemporary manifestation of slavery whose victims are predominantly women and children, to ensure just and effective punishment of traffickers, and to protect their victims.

    Sex Trafficking of Children by Force, Fraud, or Coercion, 18 U.S.C. 1591, making sex trafficking of children a crime.

    Prevention of Domestic Trafficking in Persons, 42 U.S.C. 14044, requiring the Attorney General to hold an annual conference and issue an annual report on human trafficking.

    And here is a link to the National Human Trafficking Resource Center, a national, toll-free hotline for reporting incidents of slavery and human trafficking. The number is 1-888-3737-888.

    https://sites.google.com/site/huhnco...ussion/slavery


    Chapter 77 ("Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons") of Title 18 of the U.S. Code has a number of provisions against slave trading, enslavement, and related crimes. For example, 18 U.S.C. 1589 ("Forced labor") states:
    Quote:
    Sec. 1589. Forced labor Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a
    person--

    (1) by threats of serious harm to, or physical restraint
    against, that person or another person;
    (2) by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause
    the person to believe that, if the person did not perform such labor
    or services, that person or another person would suffer serious harm
    or physical restraint; or
    (3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the
    legal process,shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or<------------
    both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the
    violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual
    abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to
    kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for <----------------
    any term of years or life, or both.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-19-14 at 09:08 PM.

  3. #253
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons (TIP), is a modern-day form of slavery. It is a crime under federal and international law; it is also a crime in almost every state in the U.S.
    Human trafficking is technically NOT slavery. Show me a federal statute or Supreme Court ruling that states that human trafficking is slavery. No one is tried for the crime of slavery, because slavery does not exist in the United States.

  4. #254
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Human trafficking is technically NOT slavery. Show me a federal statute or Supreme Court ruling that states that human trafficking is slavery. No one is tried for the crime of slavery, because slavery does not exist in the United States.


    Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons, 18 U.S.C. 1581 et seq., making slavery, the slave trade, and related activities a crime.<---------------

    January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------



    U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 77
    18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/te...t-I/chapter-77
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-19-14 at 09:19 PM.

  5. #255
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons, 18 U.S.C. 1581 et seq., making slavery, the slave trade, and related activities a crime.<---------------

    January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------
    That is the statement of a website. What is posted on a website is not law. Here's the law

    (a) Whoever holds or returns any person to a condition of peonage, or arrests any person with the intent of placing him in or returning him to a condition of peonage, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or life, or both.
    (b) Whoever obstructs, or attempts to obstruct, or in any way interferes with or prevents the enforcement of this section, shall be liable to the penalties prescribed in subsection (a).
    Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the United States is there a statute that explicitly states what the punishment is for slavery. NOWHERE! Again, THE SUPREME COURT HAS CLEARLY STATED THAT THE THIRTEENTH AMENDMENT DOES NOT NEED ANCILLARY LEGISLATION.

    This amendment, ... is undoubtedly self-executing, without any ancillary legislation, so far as its terms are applicable to any existing state of circumstances.

  6. #256
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That is the statement of a website. What is posted on a website is not law. Here's the law



    Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the United States is there a statute that explicitly states what the punishment is for slavery. NOWHERE! Again, THE SUPREME COURT HAS CLEARLY STATED THAT THE THIRTEENTH AMENDMENT DOES NOT NEED ANCILLARY LEGISLATION.


    its tough being wrong isn't it?




    18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

     1581. Peonage; obstructing enforcement
     1582. Vessels for slave trade
     1583. Enticement into slavery
     1584. Sale into involuntary servitude
     1585. Seizure, detention, transportation or sale of slaves
     1586. Service on vessels in slave trade
     1587. Possession of slaves aboard vessel
     1588. Transportation of slaves from United States
     1589. Forced labor
     1590. Trafficking with respect to peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
     1591. Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion
     1592. Unlawful conduct with respect to documents in furtherance of trafficking, peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
     1593. Mandatory restitution
     1593A. Benefitting financially from peonage, slavery, and trafficking in persons
     1594. General provisions
     1595. Civil remedy
     1596. Additional jurisdiction in certain trafficking offenses
     1597. Unlawful conduct with respect to immigration documents
    1588 - Transportation of slaves from United States


    Chapter 77 ("Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons") of Title 18 of the U.S. Code has a number of provisions against slave trading, enslavement, and related crimes. For example, 18 U.S.C. 1589 ("Forced labor") states:
    Quote:
    Sec. 1589. Forced labor Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a
    person--

    (1) by threats of serious harm to, or physical restraint
    against, that person or another person;
    (2) by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause
    the person to believe that, if the person did not perform such labor
    or services, that person or another person would suffer serious harm
    or physical restraint; or
    (3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the
    legal process,shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or<-------------------------------------------------------------!
    both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the
    violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual
    abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to
    kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for <---------------------------------------------------------!
    any term of years or life, or both.



    slavery by a person is a crime.

    slavery sanctioned by government is a constitutional violation.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-19-14 at 09:35 PM.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    its tough being wrong isn't it?

    18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

     1581. Peonage; obstructing enforcement
     1582. Vessels for slave trade
     1583. Enticement into slavery
     1584. Sale into involuntary servitude
     1585. Seizure, detention, transportation or sale of slaves
     1586. Service on vessels in slave trade
     1587. Possession of slaves aboard vessel
     1588. Transportation of slaves from United States
     1589. Forced labor
     1590. Trafficking with respect to peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
     1591. Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion
     1592. Unlawful conduct with respect to documents in furtherance of trafficking, peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
     1593. Mandatory restitution
     1593A. Benefitting financially from peonage, slavery, and trafficking in persons
     1594. General provisions
     1595. Civil remedy
     1596. Additional jurisdiction in certain trafficking offenses
     1597. Unlawful conduct with respect to immigration documents
    1588 - Transportation of slaves from United States


    Chapter 77 ("Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons") of Title 18 of the U.S. Code has a number of provisions against slave trading, enslavement, and related crimes. For example, 18 U.S.C. 1589 ("Forced labor") states:
    Quote:
    Sec. 1589. Forced labor Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a
    person--

    (1) by threats of serious harm to, or physical restraint
    against, that person or another person;
    (2) by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause
    the person to believe that, if the person did not perform such labor
    or services, that person or another person would suffer serious harm
    or physical restraint; or
    (3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the
    legal process,shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or<-------------------------------------------------------------!
    both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the
    violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual
    abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to
    kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for <---------------------------------------------------------!
    any term of years or life, or both.



    slavery by a person is a crime.

    slavery sanctioned by government is a constitutional violation.
    It's not hard being wrong, if that's the truth. And that's the difference between you and me.

    There is no crime called slavery, because you would have to first make a person a slave, and that's not possible in the United States. You can't bring a person to court and say he made someone a slave, because in the United States it is not possible to make a person a slave. Now you can be prosecuted for forcing a person to do labor, or something like that. But there is no crime for making a person a slave. That's my point, because according 13th Amendment slavery does not exist.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It's not hard being wrong, if that's the truth. And that's the difference between you and me.

    There is no crime called slavery, because you would have to first make a person a slave, and that's not possible in the United States. You can't bring a person to court and say he made someone a slave, because in the United States it is not possible to make a person a slave. Now you can be prosecuted for forcing a person to do labor, or something like that. But there is no crime for making a person a slave. That's my point, because according 13th Amendment slavery does not exist.

    i am having one H*LL of a time watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper in that hole.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i am having one H*LL of a time watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper in that hole.
    I'm not digging myself into a hole. You may want that, but I'm telling the truth. No one is brought to court on the crime that they made someone a slave, because you can't make a person a slave in the United States. You can bring them to court saying for forced labor however.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I'm not digging myself into a hole. You may want that, but I'm telling the truth. No one is brought to court on the crime that they made someone a slave, because you can't make a person a slave in the United States. You can bring them to court saying for forced labor however.
    you seem to be off the subject, trying to save face.


    a person cannot violate the constitution, they can only commit crimes.

    government commits constitutional violations..

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