View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  1. #221
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Regardless of where it is, it is in the constitution, and indeed Congress has the power over your income, WHICH IS YOUR PROPERTY.



    Governments are there to control, limit, what people can do. And because the constitution does indeed control government, the ultimate effect of that control is to control people. It's irrelevant whether it's technically a constitutional violation, because the constitution ultimately laid down the law, and as a result all citizens in the US must follow, governments as well.



    I'm going to answer you again, Congress has the power to tax citizens. That is authority, power, over citizens property. It does not matter where in the constitution it is. That power is in the constitution.



    And again, for the umpteenth time, it's irrelevant whether it's a constitutional violation if a citizen attempts to practice slavery. As a result of the authority of the constitution, slavery is prohibited in the United States. The practical effect, regardless of whether it is a constitutional violation, is that citizens cannot practice slavery.

    congress has the power to tax your income..ie your property..yes...it has no power to be involve in your persona life!......concerning the your life ,your liberty or your property....land, vehicles, things you create, or earn by labor, .explain how the EPA, CAN make laws over my land?

    the federal government is given no control over the people,that is false, people were to be govern by state government which are close to the people.

    where is the power to lay legalization on a person's land. his body. his health, ..no where!

    slavery is prohibited, because its a CRIME!!!

    CRIMINAL law , enforces constitutional law


    so show me, where in constitutional law...all this power is!

  2. #222
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by law View Post
    That's not capitalism, that's corporatism. Paying off the government to kill competition and rule the land is almost the exact opposite of what a capitalist society would entail. America is in fact an oligarchy as a result of the excessive corporatism. I fail to see how it can still be called a democracy.
    I quite agree...but it is deregulated capitalism that allowed this rampant corporatism. If you'll think about it, who was it that supported Citizens United? The conservatives on the Supreme Court, and the GOP, and the Tea Party organizations...and most conservatives. America's status as an oligarchy is on y'all's heads.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    congress has the power to tax your income..ie your property..yes...it has no power to be involve in your persona life!......concerning the your life ,your liberty or your property....land, vehicles, things you create, or earn by labor, .explain how the EPA, CAN make laws over my land?
    When someone takes my money they are involved in my personal life. When the federal government takes my money they are involved in my personal life. When Wesley Snipes did not pay his taxes they threw him in prison. That's involved in his personal life. It is an absurd notion to say that congress has no power over a citizen's personal life.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the federal government is given no control over the people,that is false, people were to be govern by state government which are close to the people.
    The government can take your money. You can't just take money from people and not have any control over them. If the federal government didn't have some control over people, no one would pay taxes. What you are saying makes so sense whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    where is the power to lay legalization on a person's land. his body. his health, ..no where!

    slavery is prohibited, because its a CRIME!!!

    CRIMINAL law , enforces constitutional law


    so show me, where in constitutional law...all this power is!
    Again, taxing people is taking people's money. The money is people's property, so the federal government does have the power. Not only that but the 13th amendment clearly says there is to be no slavery in the US. People who had slaves as property could no longer do so. That is power over property. The federal government has all kind of control over people. The federal government can MAKE you serve in the armed forces. That is direct control over your life. I don't see how you can expect anyone to believe otherwise.

  4. #224
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    When someone takes my money they are involved in my personal life. When the federal government takes my money they are involved in my personal life. When Wesley Snipes did not pay his taxes they threw him in prison. That's involved in his personal life. It is an absurd notion to say that congress has no power over a citizen's

    personal life.
    and what was my argument, when i said the federal government has no authority in the life's liberty and property of the people......what do i always talk about the interpretation of the constitution by the founders.

    i have said several times on this forum, by placing a income on the people, government has the ability to control them.......as i have said many times"...the power to tax is the power to destroy", but even though they have the income tax, that does not give them authority to levy laws on the backs of people which does not concern taxes.



    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The government can take your money. You can't just take money from people and not have any control over them. If the federal government didn't have some control over people, no one would pay taxes. What you are saying makes so sense whatsoever.
    the Constitution authorizes them to take money...by creating laws concerning taxes.......other then that the congress has no authority over the people...notice i said congress, not the executive branch or judicial.

    why would the founders throw off the the centralized power of a king, to turn around an put on the centralized power of a federal government........simple they didn't..... states where to govern their own people independently. but staying inside constitutional law.



    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Again, taxing people is taking people's money. The money is people's property, so the federal government does have the power. Not only that but the 13th amendment clearly says there is to be no slavery in the US. People who had slaves as property could no longer do so. That is power over property. The federal government has all kind of control over people. The federal government can MAKE you serve in the armed forces. That is direct control over your life. I don't see how you can expect anyone to believe otherwise.
    again you are wrong, does the constitution mention people in the 16th amendment concerning taxes.....saying the people income will be taxed, does the 13th say the people will not have slaves...no

    the constitution makes it unconstitutional.....(constitutional law here).......for governments to not allow slavery

    the constitution creates federalism , the separation of powers between the federal government and state government, it created no relationship between the people and the federal government.

    again show me where the federal government is given power over the people, ...the federal government is not even given power over the states in the constitution.

  5. #225
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    That is not what is being done.
    That is exactly what is being done.



    It belongs to them, and they are paying taxes on it. (Even though they shouldn't have to, as that is counter to ownership.)
    They pay some tax on it but nothing close to the full value. At the same time, we pay taxes on things we should pay no tax on to make up for the loss in our common wealth (property taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, etc.).

    (Even though they shouldn't have to, as that is counter to ownership.)
    Ownership isn't the end-all-be-all. Masters once owned slaves. Kings once owned countries. Ownership is fine as long as it is the rightful owner. The value of a hospital or road does not belong to a land speculator.

    No it shouldn't be discouraged.
    Why not?

    What an absurd thing to say. It shows no such thing.
    That is your opinion.

    iLOL
    No. That was me putting your opinion into perspective.
    Your perspective.

    Too bad.
    It isn't outrageous, and like I said it is how much we need; As much as we need to project our power and support our interests and continue research and development so we can keep it that way for a good long time.
    I don't believe you have answered my question: How much defense spending is enough?
    Last edited by Geoist; 05-19-14 at 12:15 PM.
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    and what was my argument, when i said the federal government has no authority in the life's liberty and property of the people......what do i always talk about the interpretation of the constitution by the founders.

    i have said several times on this forum, by placing a income on the people, government has the ability to control them.......as i have said many times"...the power to tax is the power to destroy", but even though they have the income tax, that does not give them authority to levy laws on the backs of people which does not concern taxes.
    Therefore because the constitutional provides congress with the power to tax citizens, the federal government does indeed have the power to control property, because money is property. NOT ONLY THAT, but while that is a restricted type of property, THE FACT THAT THE AMENDMENT PROVIDES THE POWER DEMONSTRATES THAT CONGRESS DOES HAVE POWER OVER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY. This is because the amendment demonstrates the type of power that the constitution CAN bestow upon congress. In other words it is possible that the constitution can bestow power over other types of property on congress.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the Constitution authorizes them to take money...by creating laws concerning taxes.......other then that the congress has no authority over the people...notice i said congress, not the executive branch or judicial.

    why would the founders throw off the the centralized power of a king, to turn around an put on the centralized power of a federal government........simple they didn't..... states where to govern their own people independently. but staying inside constitutional law.
    The constitution does indeed authorize congress to take money, therefore, contrary to your assertion, congress does have power over people's property. I am not saying that the sixteenth amendment gave congress unlimited power with regards to citizen's property. But what I am saying is that YOU ARE WRONG WHEN YOU SAY CONGRESS HAS NO POWER OVER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY.

    Throwing off the centralized power of a king is irrelevant. The point is that Congress has power over people's property. And although the sixteenth amendment provides for power over a restricted type of property, that amendment demonstrates that YOUR CONTENTION THAT CONGRESS DOES NOT HAVE POWER OVER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY IS WRONG!

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    again you are wrong, does the constitution mention people in the 16th amendment concerning taxes.....saying the people income will be taxed,
    The constitution does not have to mention people in the sixteenth amendment to give Congress power over people's property, a particular type of property in this instance, income. The constitution gave congress the power to take people's money. That is a type of property. Therefore, YOUR CONTENTION THAT CONGRESS HAS NO POWER OVER PEOPLE'S MONEY IS WRONG.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    does the 13th say the people will not have slaves...no

    the constitution makes it unconstitutional.....(constitutional law here).......for governments to not allow slavery
    WRONG!!!! The thirteenth amendment is not limited to merely governments. Again, here is the text

    Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
    Here there is no restriction on governments. Where in the text does it say "congress shall make no laws that legalize slavery?" Where is it? It is not there. It is an absolute declaration that slavery shall not exist in the United Stated. PERIOD. It's not to be in the United States. It's not to be in laws. Neither can citizens practice it. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IT GIVES CONGRESS THE POWER TO ENFORCE THE AMENDMENT. So again you are wrong. The thirteenth amendment is not limited to governments, but it also applies to citizens as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution creates federalism , the separation of powers between the federal government and state government, it created no relationship between the people and the federal government.

    again show me where the federal government is given power over the people, ...the federal government is not even given power over the states in the constitution.
    I just showed you. The 13th and 16th amendments clearly give the government power over people. To state otherwise is absurd.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 05-19-14 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #227
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    That is exactly what is being done.
    Wrong. That is not what is being done. Nor would it be detrimental.
    You are just making false claims that come from your ridiculous ideology.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    They pay some tax on it but nothing close to the full value.
    Bs! As it is they pay the taxes on it full value.
    But as it should be, all they should pay is a sales tax.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    At the same time, we pay taxes on things we should pay no tax on to make up for the loss in our common wealth (property taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, etc.).
    Bs! you are not paying taxes on certain things to "make up for".
    That is another absurd claim.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    (Even though they shouldn't have to, as that is counter to ownership.)
    Ownership isn't the end-all-be-all. Masters once owned slaves. Kings once owned countries. Ownership is fine as long as it is the rightful owner. The value of a hospital or road does not belong to a land speculator.
    What you said is irrelevant to what you quoted.
    Paying taxes on something that is your property, you know, that **** you already paid taxes on, is counter ownership.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Why not?
    As already stated.
    They are profiting. That is a good thing. They also risk losing and do lose.
    That should not be discouraged.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    That is your opinion.
    Wrong. It shows no such thing as stated.
    It does not show any out of control military spending.
    That is nothing more than your false claim.
    All it showed was our spending as compared to others.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Your perspective.
    And again.
    iLOL
    No. That was me putting your opinion into perspective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Too bad.
    It isn't outrageous, and like I said it is how much we need; As much as we need to project our power and support our interests and continue research and development so we can keep it that way for a good long time.
    I don't believe you have answered my question: How much defense spending is enough?
    Wrong. I did indeed answer you question. You even quoted it.
    As much as we need to project our power and support our interests and continue research and development so we can keep it that way for a good long time.


    All you do is rant about your ideology as if it is correct compared to our current form of capitalism.
    And frankly, you and it, are just wrong. Period.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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  8. #228
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Therefore because the constitutional provides congress with the power to tax citizens, the federal government does indeed have the power to control property, because money is property. NOT ONLY THAT, but while that is a restricted type of property, THE FACT THAT THE AMENDMENT PROVIDES THE POWER DEMONSTRATES THAT CONGRESS DOES HAVE POWER OVER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY. This is because the amendment demonstrates the type of power that the constitution CAN bestow upon congress. In other words it is possible that the constitution can bestow power over other types of property on congress.



    The constitution does indeed authorize congress to take money, therefore, contrary to your assertion, congress does have power over people's property. I am not saying that the sixteenth amendment gave congress unlimited power with regards to citizen's property. But what I am saying is that YOU ARE WRONG WHEN YOU SAY CONGRESS HAS NO POWER OVER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY.

    Throwing off the centralized power of a king is irrelevant. The point is that Congress has power over people's property. And although the sixteenth amendment provides for power over a restricted type of property, that amendment demonstrates that YOUR CONTENTION THAT CONGRESS DOES NOT HAVE POWER OVER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY IS WRONG!



    The constitution does not have to mention people in the sixteenth amendment to give Congress power over people's property, a particular type of property in this instance, income. The constitution gave congress the power to take people's money. That is a type of property. Therefore, YOUR CONTENTION THAT CONGRESS HAS NO POWER OVER PEOPLE'S MONEY IS WRONG.



    WRONG!!!! The thirteenth amendment is not limited to merely governments. Again, here is the text



    Here there is no restriction on governments. Where in the text does it say "congress shall make no laws that legalize slavery?" Where is it? It is not there. It is an absolute declaration that slavery shall not exist in the United Stated. PERIOD. It's not to be in the United States. It's not to be in laws. Neither can citizens practice it. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IT GIVES CONGRESS THE POWER TO ENFORCE THE AMENDMENT. So again you are wrong. The thirteenth amendment is not limited to governments, but it also applies to citizens as well.



    I just showed you. The 13th and 16th amendments clearly give the government power over people. To state otherwise is absurd.


    well still i have asked you questions and you have refused to answer.


    i will ask them again.

    where in article 1 section 8 , do you see a power of congress over the people.

    name for me, people who have violated constitutional law, and it upheld by the court......

    people have sued, claiming a violation of constitutional law by people, however it has never stood on those grounds.



    will you answer this time...no, because there is no proof to back up your case and you know it.

  9. #229
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well still i have asked you questions and you have refused to answer.

    i will ask them again.

    where in article 1 section 8 , do you see a power of congress over the people.

    name for me, people who have violated constitutional law, and it upheld by the court......

    people have sued, claiming a violation of constitutional law by people, however it has never stood on those grounds.

    will you answer this time...no, because there is no proof to back up your case and you know it.
    I have answered your question by saying that it does not matter where in the constitution congress is given power over people's property, because it is clearly in the 13th and 16th amendments.

    Furthermore, your statement that the 13th amendment only applies to governments is blatantly false because it is an absolute declaration, without any type of restrictions whatsoever, that slavery is not be practiced in the United States.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by mildsteel View Post
    i have answered your question by saying that it does not matter where in the constitution congress is given power over people's property, because it is clearly in the 13th and 16th amendments.

    Furthermore, your statement that the 13th amendment only applies to governments is blatantly false because it is an absolute declaration, without any type of restrictions whatsoever, that slavery is not be practiced in the united states.
    no you have noT ...what power in article 1 section 8 gives government authority in people life's.

    What people have been convicted of a constitutional violation.................stop deflecting and answer the questions

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