View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  1. #211
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    incorrect ...why?

    i asked the question...... do you see a power [powers of congress] in article 1 section 8 ,where it gives the federal government authority over the lifes, liberty, and property of the people..............the answer is NO!

    amendment 14 is not a power of the federal government, it placing a restriction on state governments, not to deny privileges and immunities/ civil rights....... to the people

    the 14th makes it legal for government sanctioned slavery, because it is a constitutional violation.........the constitution does not...again!.........does not apply to the people.

    when a person violates the rights of other person...it is a CRIME!


    when jim crow laws were enacted,...it was state government sanctioning discrimination, telling citizens they MUST discriminate
    I see you edited your response.

    Congress has power to enact laws that affect the lives, liberty, and property of people. Those laws can deprive you of your life, your property and your liberty and put you in prison or even kill you. So honestly, I think it's pretty ridiculous to say the Congress has no such power under the Constitution. The Constitution gives the Federal government the power to tax citizens. When I pay income tax, they are taking my property. Now Wesley Snipes thought the government had no such power, but we know how well that went for him.

    Moreover, the 13th amendment states in no ambiguous terms that slavery shall not exist in the United States. Again the exact text

    Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
    That is not a merely a restriction on government, it is a blanket restriction on individuals as well. It's an absolute statement that slavery shall not exist. Therefore your assertion that the Federal government does not have power over peoples lives, liberty, and property is false.

  2. #212
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by mildsteel View Post
    i see you edited your response.

    Congress has power to enact laws that affect the lives, liberty, and property of people. Those laws can deprive you of your life, your property and your liberty and put you in prison or even kill you. So honestly, i think it's pretty ridiculous to say the congress has no such power under the constitution. The constitution gives the federal government the power to tax citizens. When i pay income tax, they are taking my property. Now wesley snipes thought the government had no such power, but we know how well that went for him.

    Moreover, the 13th amendment states in no ambiguous terms that slavery shall not exist in the united states. Again the exact text



    that is not a merely a restriction on government, it is a blanket restriction on individuals as well. It's an absolute statement that slavery shall not exist. Therefore your assertion that the federal government does not have power over peoples lives, liberty, and property is false.
    because i put legal, when it is illegal...

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Congress has power to enact laws that affect the lives, liberty, and property of people. Those laws can deprive you of your life, your property and your liberty and put you in prison or even kill you. So honestly, I think it's pretty ridiculous to say the Congress has no such power under the Constitution. The Constitution gives the Federal government the power to tax citizens. When I pay income tax, they are taking my property. Now Wesley Snipes thought the government had no such power, but we know how well that went for him.
    you statement is worded, rather funny dont you think...here is your "wording" ..........enact laws that affect the lives, liberty, and property of people.

    now what does "effect" mean to you.......do they have legislative powers,article 1 section 8 to make laws on your land, on you personally, on your personal property......NO!....if so, where are they listed in the constitution.

    again, i stated article 1 section 8...income taxes are in the 16th amendment.giving them the power to tax you IF you have an income...


    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Moreover, the 13th amendment states in no ambiguous terms that slavery shall not exist in the United States. Again the exact text

    SLAVERY OR INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE.........MEANS NO CITIZEN CAN BE FORCED TO WORK FOR ANOTHER CITIZEN UNLESS CONVICTED OF A CRIME.

    THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT LIMIT THE PEOPLE.....if i tried to make a slave of you ,its a crime, which the state government by constitutional law, is to see it does not take place, which why criminal law is written.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That is not a merely a restriction on government, it is a blanket restriction on individuals as well. It's an absolute statement that slavery shall not exist. Therefore your assertion that the Federal government does not have power over peoples lives, liberty, and property is false.
    wrong!........the Constitution does not apply to citizens.............NO CITIZEN CAN VIOLATE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW.............A CITIZEN CAN ONLY COMMIT A CRIME.

  4. #214
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Therefore I said that capitalists need to operate within certain constraints and need to make sure that workers needs are properly accommodated. Otherwise, you just end up with an tyrannical oligarchy based on money.
    You mean like what we're getting now, now that corporations can spend as much as they want on federal, state, and even local elections. Think about how that affects elections of judges....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    because i put legal, when it is illegal...
    That's not the one I was talking about. I'm talking about the edit of post #206 where you took out the word "correct." It's ok tho.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    What is your point???

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you statement is worded, rather funny dont you think...here is your "wording" ..........enact laws that affect the lives, liberty, and property of people.

    now what does "effect" mean to you.......do they have legislative powers,article 1 section 8 to make laws on your land, on you personally, on your personal property......NO!....if so, where are they listed in the constitution.

    again, i stated article 1 section 8...income taxes are in the 16th amendment.giving them the power to tax you IF you have an income...
    Your income is your property. Congress has the power to tax your income. Meaning they can take your income, your property, away from you. And they do exactly that. Congress establishes the tax code. So to say Congress has no power to enact laws that affect your property is not correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    SLAVERY OR INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE.........MEANS NO CITIZEN CAN BE FORCED TO WORK FOR ANOTHER CITIZEN UNLESS CONVICTED OF A CRIME.

    THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT LIMIT THE PEOPLE.....if i tried to make a slave of you ,its a crime, which the state government by constitutional law, is to see it does not take place, which why criminal law is written.
    Again, the 13th amendment verbatim

    Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
    Notice the wording here. There is no restriction on Congress here. It is a blanket restriction on the whole of the United States. Slavery is not to exist. It does indeed limit people. There is no doubt about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    wrong!........the Constitution does not apply to citizens.............NO CITIZEN CAN VIOLATE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW.............A CITIZEN CAN ONLY COMMIT A CRIME.
    No, you are wrong, because what you said is that the Federal government does not have authority in the lives, liberty and property of people. It indeed it does has such authority. Now you can say that a person who tries to practice slavery has not committed a constitutional violation, and technically speaking that may be true, but practically speaking the Constitution banned the practice of slavery, and because of the authority of the Constitution, no government in the United States can permit slavery. Therefore, it is the Constitution that is ultimately exercising authority over people's lives, liberty, and property. If it was up to the states, they would not have done so. But because of the Constitution, they are forced to comply, which means that the citizens of the United States must comply as well.

  8. #218
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    You mean like what we're getting now, now that corporations can spend as much as they want on federal, state, and even local elections. Think about how that affects elections of judges....
    That's not capitalism, that's corporatism. Paying off the government to kill competition and rule the land is almost the exact opposite of what a capitalist society would entail. America is in fact an oligarchy as a result of the excessive corporatism. I fail to see how it can still be called a democracy.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Your income is your property. Congress has the power to tax your income. Meaning they can take your income, your property, away from you. And they do exactly that. Congress establishes the tax code. So to say Congress has no power to enact laws that affect your property is not correct.
    again this power is not in article 1 section 8...it is the 16th amendment giving congress the power to tax income.

    does this power give congress the authority to lay taxes your land...no, ....to make laws on the backs of the people concerning their personal life's, liberty or property...no!.......IE healthcare, EPA, .....NO!



    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Again, the 13th amendment verbatim

    Notice the wording here. There is no restriction on Congress here. It is a blanket restriction on the whole of the United States. Slavery is not to exist. It does indeed limit people. There is no doubt about it.
    constitution are not written for people..... but government only........

    slavery existed in america because states allowed it, ...just as they allowed jim crow laws......the constitution does not limit the people at all.

    if i make you a slave...its a crime...not a constitutional violation.

    BY THE WAY!!!!!.........I AKSED YOU BEFORE, AND YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED....WHERE IN ARTILE 1 SECTION 8 DOES GIVE CONGRESS POWER OVER THE PEOPLE.........GIVE ME AN ANSWER.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    No, you are wrong, because what you said is that the Federal government does not have authority in the lives, liberty and property of people. It indeed it does has such authority. Now you can say that a person who tries to practice slavery has not committed a constitutional violation, and technically speaking that may be true, but practically speaking the Constitution banned the practice of slavery, and because of the authority of the Constitution, no government in the United States can permit slavery. Therefore, it is the Constitution that is ultimately exercising authority over people's lives, liberty, and property. If it was up to the states, they would not have done so. But because of the Constitution, they are forced to comply, which means that the citizens of the United States must comply as well.

    NAME FOR ME CITIZENS WHO HAVE VIOLATED CONSTITUTIONAL LAW????........DO NOT GIVE ME FEDERAL LAW!

    THE CONSTITUTION ONLY GIVES THE CONGRESS THE ABILITY TO MAKE FEDERAL LAWS, ON PEOPLE ....iIF...IF....YOU COUNTERFEIT, TREASON,. PiRACY, OR CHEAT ON INCOME TAX....AND THAT IS ALL!
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-18-14 at 09:59 PM.

  10. #220
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    again this power is not in article 1 section 8...it is the 16th amendment giving congress the power to tax income.

    does this power give congress the authority to lay taxes your land...no, ....to make laws on the backs of the people concerning their personal life's, liberty or property...no!.......IE healthcare, EPA, .....NO!
    Regardless of where it is, it is in the constitution, and indeed Congress has the power over your income, WHICH IS YOUR PROPERTY.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    constitution are not written for people..... but government only........

    slavery existed in america because states allowed it, ...just as they allowed jim crow laws......the constitution does not limit the people at all.

    if i make you a slave...its a crime...not a constitutional violation.
    Governments are there to control, limit, what people can do. And because the constitution does indeed control government, the ultimate effect of that control is to control people. It's irrelevant whether it's technically a constitutional violation, because the constitution ultimately laid down the law, and as a result all citizens in the US must follow, governments as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    BY THE WAY!!!!!.........I AKSED YOU BEFORE, AND YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED....WHERE IN ARTILE 1 SECTION 8 DOES GIVE CONGRESS POWER OVER THE PEOPLE.........GIVE ME AN ANSWER.
    I'm going to answer you again, Congress has the power to tax citizens. That is authority, power, over citizens property. It does not matter where in the constitution it is. That power is in the constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    NAME FOR ME CITIZENS WHO HAVE VIOLATED CONSTITUTIONAL LAW????........DO NOT GIVE ME FEDERAL LAW!

    THE CONSTITUTION ONLY GIVES THE CONGRESS THE ABILITY TO MAKE FEDERAL LAWS, ON PEOPLE ....iIF...IF....YOU COUNTERFEIT, TREASON,. PRICY, OR CHEAT ON INCOME TAX....AND THAT IS ALL!
    And again, for the umpteenth time, it's irrelevant whether it's a constitutional violation if a citizen attempts to practice slavery. As a result of the authority of the constitution, slavery is prohibited in the United States. The practical effect, regardless of whether it is a constitutional violation, is that citizens cannot practice slavery.

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