View Poll Results: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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Thread: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Russia has quite a wealth disparity and their economy hasn't been this good since the forties.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The million dollar question is whether that efficiency is possible under a purely capitalistic model. I really don't think it's possible. Having said that, I think it is possible under a model that has some capitalist elements. But that would not be capitalism, in the strict sense of the term.
    I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure. Strict definitions generally don't apply very well to real life. I'm not aware of any pure Capitalist societies (or pure Communists, for that matter.)


    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Efficiency at one task frees more labor to take on additional tasks. Seeking to keep the masses simply very busy, yet accomplishing no more, is the very definition of economic failure.
    That seems like a very Capitalist position, and it makes a lot of (individual) sense as long as you're getting a piece of the profit. For people who get squeezed out, not so much.

    What I think we need is a economy that rewards peoples efforts, and protects them from bad luck.

  3. #93
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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure. Strict definitions generally don't apply very well to real life. I'm not aware of any pure Capitalist societies (or pure Communists, for that matter.)
    No we will not because the model is too flawed to be practically implemented in it's pure ideological form.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    My reading skills are not that good. I'll probably need to read it again. I think he was writing it at a time that was ripe for the proletariat to take their turn to rule the bourgeois. Do you really think that he was advocating an Utopia that would last indefinitely? I'd have to read it again.
    Socialism forces an equilibrium that self-regulates through stagnation. Also, with property removed, the ability to "rise above" is eliminated. That is the source of all disparity, in Marx's belief. Without that, people are generally worker ants that have no differentiation, specialization, or exceptional ability. Entrepreneurialism is essentially squashed.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Possible flaws in capitalism doesn't necessarily mean an alternative system is being promoted or looked two. Too many people on this thread are making that faulty assumption,=.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    So instead of answering my question you just go on an anti-capitalist rant. Thanks for wasting my time.
    I responded to your post in a fitting manner. Having said that, I gave a slight hint back in post #77

    Mildsteel said

    That's pretty much my take as well. The only difference that I have is that I think his problem was that his solution was to, in essence, get rid of the capitalist class. I think that's where the problem lies. I don't think that is possible. I said to someone else, that such an endeavor was like trying to stop women from trying to look pretty. It's just too fundamental to some people's nature to expect them to act in that way. And in my opinion, at the end of the day, that is what caused the failure of the attempts of people like Lenin. I think the solution lies in having a capitalist class that operates within certain constraints and that has been trained that it's ok to profit from business as long as it is done in a just, fair way, that is not destructive to the environment, that does not conflict with what is good for society as a whole, and that sees to the valid needs of workers.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That was a stupid idea to outsource the nation's manufacturing capacity like that. Unless, of course, you are one of the greedy bastards that got extremely wealthy from doing so.
    Of course unionization in the U.S. was absolutely behind outsourcing. The union people cooked their own goose. The right to work states enjoyed some of the windfall of what industry remained.
    Liberalismódividing up the EARNED wealth of honest, hard working and ingenious AMERICANS and giving it to the leeches who would rather waste their worthless lives living off the government teat.
    -----HogWash-----

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by HogWash View Post
    Of course unionization in the U.S. was absolutely behind outsourcing. The union people cooked their own goose. The right to work states enjoyed some of the windfall of what industry remained.
    What????? I didn't know that. That can't be. If it's true the unions supported outsourcing, that is totally insane. Can you provide some reference to support that? That would be totally amazing.

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Here's an interesting article by George Magnus, former Chief Economist at UBS, the biggest bank in Switzerland



    SO

    Was Karl Marx right about capitalism?
    In one glance at a microcosm of corrupted capitalism, Marx was correct . The entirety of capitalistic/market theory? No.

    What we call capitalism is a shade of actual free market theory, and even so, this corrupted system has still managed to provide the highest standard of living to the highest percentage of population than any other system in history.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

    What we're seeing is the peak of the growth, production and consumption model. Between natural resource limitations, including fresh food/water, clean air, real estate and meeting growing energy demands there isn't a lot more of capacity or room to grow. Society inevitably has become split into an elite oligarchy with those that directly serve them, and an impoverished underclass. The masses will have to be slowly culled in size in order to meet their basic needs. That's actually already started happening with our current situation in the US. Lower full employment, less credit and consumption, housing crisis, bankers becoming speculators, and a growing population dependent on gov't assistance to survive.

    Don't see a any near term solutions towards the slow drift downwards.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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