• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Would you want a gun in this situation?

Would you want a gun in this situation?

  • I am anti-gun, and I would want a gun.

    Votes: 2 3.4%

  • I am anti-gun, and I wouldn't want a gun.

    Votes: 4 6.8%

  • I am pro-gun, and I would want a gun.

    Votes: 51 86.4%

  • I am pro-gun, and I wouldn't want a gun.

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • Total voters
    59
Ad_Captandum said:
Two can play this game.

What say you to this similarly unlikely and absurd situation:

Thieves break in to steal your TV, and you go downstairs to check it out. As is almost always the case, the thieves only want your stuff and to leave. They threaten you to go away, and they start to make good their escape.

Suddenly you dive for your gun cabinet near your TV, throw it open, and one of the thieves, upon realising his life is in mortal danger because some moron intends to shoot him, hits you over the head with his crowbar.

At what point do you wish you had not had any guns in the house?
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Ad_Captandum, you had to bring in crowbars into the discussion. We hear on the left coast can expect the libs in Sacramento on Monday morning introducing legislation on crowbar restrictions on where and who can posses one, crowbar lengths what they can look like and probably background checks.
 
CRUE CAB said:
You types just cant stand anyone to have balls. You think we should all just run away at the first sign of trouble or cower in fear while hoping the police get there before anything really bad happens.
I have no delusions of grandeur but anyone doing, attempting doing harm or theft or in my home is going to find me willing and ready to kill them in defense of my family. Any thing less is unacceptable as a husband and father.
Click to expand...

Turning a robbery into your family being murdered is not defending them. No matter how you spin it. My first responsibility is keeping my family safe.
 
TurtleDude said:
not this crap again. most of the studies include as a gun in the home, cases where the intruder brought the firearm. most of those people killed are criminals carrying guns legally. and the DOJ has found that armed victims who resist violent attacks are far less likely to be injured than those who submit.



If one is afraid of owning a gun-Do NOT OWN ONE. but citing silly studies that set out with the goal of demonizing gun ownership isn't going to convince anyone who understands the issue.
Click to expand...

That was not what was happening in this study but it makes sense that you would be in denial since you believe you couldn't live without a gun.

It would be impractical – not to say unethical – to randomly assign volunteers to carry a gun or not and see what happens. So Charles Branas's team at the University of Pennsylvania analysed 677 shootings over two-and-a-half years to discover whether victims were carrying at the time, and compared them to other Philly residents of similar age, sex and ethnicity. The team also accounted for other potentially confounding differences, such as the socioeconomic status of their neighbourhood.
Click to expand...
 
Kreton said:
Turning a robbery into your family being murdered is not defending them. No matter how you spin it. My first responsibility is keeping my family safe.
Click to expand...

How is me being prepared, going to (seemingly to you) get them killed? You have this thing that the criminals are always going to win and I have no choice but to run away like a scared little child.
YOU run, YOU turn tail, YOU cower. I wont. Not under any circumstances. You do what you think is best, but your method is unproven.
 
Kreton said:
Turning a robbery into your family being murdered is not defending them. No matter how you spin it. My first responsibility is keeping my family safe.
Click to expand...

Do you know how many times a year people use guns in self defense? According to the FBI its 103,000 occurring in the home.

Given that only ~16k people are killed by guns a year, most of them being suicides, how many people do you think failed to protect their family? Take a guess, if its greater than 1000 you're wrong. I'll take those odds, 99% chance of not being at the mercy of an armed criminal.

This 17 year old girl was no Rambo, but she was trained and armed and prepared to fire every round at the criminal in this home invasion.

I read at least a dozen of these stories every day, wanna know what self defense story I've never seen? One where someone wished they didn't have a gun.

A man who cannot protect his family... I'm not sure can be called a man.
 
Last edited:
RabidAlpaca said:
I'm curious about how anti-gunners would feel in real, dangerous situations. It's easy to decry the horrors of gun ownership in the safety of your armchair, but if the lives of you and your family were at risk would your convictions still hold?

The scenario:
It's late at night in your house, you and your family are asleep, when armed men break in. You don't know if they're there to rob you, rape you, murder you, or all of the above. At that point would you wish you had a gun?

The way I see it, if you're anti-gun and would still want a gun to defend yourself in this scenario you're a hypocrite. This isn't an absurd scenario. It happens daily in just about every country in the world. So what say you?
Click to expand...

Of course I would, and is precisely the reason I own a gun. However I don't think that I need a 5.56x45mm (or higher) semi-auto rifle with a 30 round clip to defend my house. I think that can be done perhaps more effectively with a pistol or even a shotgun.

I will digress though, I did enjoy shooting one at a gun range once, but I just don't see the practical purpose for owning one otherwise.
 
CRUE CAB said:
No, I don't believe in "what ifs" when things go south. Either you meet force with force or you will lose. If that is "auto pilot" then I have done my job.
Click to expand...

Since many people retreat from force successfully (whether they are armed or not), you are factually incorrect.

It is just your preference in reaction.
 
Lursa said:
Since many people retreat from force successfully (whether they are armed or not), you are factually incorrect.

It is just your preference in reaction.
Click to expand...
I would like to see that proven in relation to the OP. Not out on the street where escape or driving away is more possible, but in a home where even if you get out all you may be doing is running to a fenced yard. Or from a home with no rear ward doors, like mine.
 
Kreton said:
Yes there are different situations. We arent going to sit here and cover every possible living scenario.

If you have a group of armed men in your home and you open fire, odds are you are going to die no matter how many Van Damme movies you've seen. If you have a family in that home, they are now likely to be killed too.

The smartest, and safest thing to do in the scenario described in the OP where a group of armed men are in your home is to leave with your family. If that doesn't work; hide. If you can't hide, can't escape and are discovered, then as a last resort I can see using force. But turning a robbery into your families murder so you can be macho or some retarded mentality like that is just dumb.
Click to expand...

So...then do you have PLANS for all that with your family? Are they prepared for robbery/intruders in the home?

I never said anyone had to have a gun, however it boggles the mind that many people do not have basic plans for safety, like they do with fire drills/plans. Defense does not require guns.
 
CRUE CAB said:
I would like to see that proven in relation to the OP. Not out on the street where escape or driving away is more possible, but in a home where even if you get out all you may be doing is running to a fenced yard. Or from a home with no rear ward doors, like mine.
Click to expand...

I dont have to prove that since it wasnt my point.
 
Kreton said:
I am sure that you can take down a group of armed men by yourself. you are super tough. i am so impressed. Luckily movies have taught us the good guy never misses, the bad guys cant aim, and they all will go down with one shot anywhere in the body and you can take 9 or 10.

:shoot
Click to expand...

Any serious shooter knows that is BS.
 
Lursa said:
I dont have to prove that since it wasnt my point.
Click to expand...

Yet you made it your point to deviate from the OP. If you prepare at all you prepare for the worst case scenario, not what "might" happen. You prepare for what will happen in the worst case.
 
Kreton said:
Turning a robbery into your family being murdered is not defending them. No matter how you spin it. My first responsibility is keeping my family safe.
Click to expand...

There's no 'responsibility' in leaving all the cards in the hands of the intruders. Your choice sounds like 'do nothing and hope for the best.' Kinda like not using birth control.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Yet you made it your point to deviate from the OP. If you prepare at all you prepare for the worst case scenario, not what "might" happen. You prepare for what will happen in the worst case.
Click to expand...

If you think you cant prepare to retreat AND to fight, that is very odd. That's why each situation is different and needs to be handled as such. But again, if *I can* retreat safely, I will. That is why I have a safe room in my house, my bedroom, and THEN am fully prepared to defend it if necessary.
 
Kreton said:
Leaving is much wiser. Avoiding them and losing your possessions is much wiser.
Click to expand...



Yes, this is true. One is not always granted these options however.
 
haymarket said:
it makes one a participant. it makes one someone who joined in a much larger group effort. it makes one part of 55.
Click to expand...

sorry no... you see, Madison was laying the fountain of our Constitution by HIMSELF, months before the convention.

Madison took the notes to the convention knowing the the interpretation of the constitution, as its clauses were being proposed, debated.... finally agreed on.

Madison along with a hand full of men, on the committee of style, put the Constitution together in its current form, even making some changes.

then Madison along with 2 others, wrote the federalist which explained the document and its clauses.

Madison then throughout his life continued to write and speak about the constitution, many people wrote to Madison wanting information on it, meaning his interpretation, since he is considered the father of it.....a title he did not like.

most of the founders, did little or no work on the constitution after they left the convention, Madison though created many pieces of work, and was even sought up to his final few years to clarify the document even more...people recognized him as the utmost authority on it.
 
iguanaman said:
That was not what was happening in this study but it makes sense that you would be in denial since you believe you couldn't live without a gun.
Click to expand...

anti gunners tend to believe incredibly biased studies that fly in the face of common sense in order to bolster their fear of guns.



how many of those people were legal gun owners versus those engaged in criminal activities which incredibly increases their chances of being killed or injured by other armed criminals

80% of all murder victims as well as murderers are people with criminal records
 
I have to say, the ratio of pro-gun to "anti-gun" (a misnomer IMO) cracks me up. You're obviously not going to get the answers your looking for from this type of poll; all you're doing is making it obvious that the vast majority of DP posters, in this subform in particular, are pro-gun.

I've lived, worked and traveled in some fairly dangerous places. I've never felt like owning a gun would make me safer, including times when people have tried to mug me. It is both inaccurate and insulting to suggest that people who favor gun control have never had to face a dangerous or criminal situation.

Your scenario makes it fairly apparent that the homeowner will be hopelessly outgunned. You're not depicting a situation where you can rationally defend yourself, you're depicting one where the homeowner dies in a futile blaze of glory.
 
Visbek said:
I have to say, the ratio of pro-gun to "anti-gun" (a misnomer IMO) cracks me up. You're obviously not going to get the answers your looking for from this type of poll; all you're doing is making it obvious that the vast majority of DP posters, in this subform in particular, are pro-gun.

I've lived, worked and traveled in some fairly dangerous places. I've never felt like owning a gun would make me safer, including times when people have tried to mug me. It is both inaccurate and insulting to suggest that people who favor gun control have never had to face a dangerous or criminal situation.

Your scenario makes it fairly apparent that the homeowner will be hopelessly outgunned. You're not depicting a situation where you can rationally defend yourself, you're depicting one where the homeowner dies in a futile blaze of glory.
Click to expand...

those who don't want to carry, cannot carry or are afraid of carrying are not necessarily anti gun

those who want to prevent others from carrying are anti gun and may do so because

1) they project their fear of guns onto others

2) they are incompetent with guns and figure others will be

3) they are cowards and outsource their self defense to the government and guns remind them of their timidity

4) they engage in activities that increase their chances of being justifiably shot

5) they are "opposed to violence" and think banning CCW will decrease violence or at least will satisfy their sense of self worth by allowing them to say they have DONE SOMETHING
 
TurtleDude said:
those who don't want to carry, cannot carry or are afraid of carrying are not necessarily anti gun
Click to expand...
Please, spare us your completely baseless pseudo-psychology.

The OP is asking whether the potential threat of a home invasion by multiple armed individuals would make people want a gun. I'm pro-gun control, and that doesn't change because of a slightly ludicrous hypothetical, just as it hasn't changed when I've been threatened or confronted with violence in my own life.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I'm curious about how anti-gunners would feel in real, dangerous situations. It's easy to decry the horrors of gun ownership in the safety of your armchair, but if the lives of you and your family were at risk would your convictions still hold?

The scenario:
It's late at night in your house, you and your family are asleep, when armed men break in. You don't know if they're there to rob you, rape you, murder you, or all of the above. At that point would you wish you had a gun?

The way I see it, if you're anti-gun and would still want a gun to defend yourself in this scenario you're a hypocrite. This isn't an absurd scenario. It happens daily in just about every country in the world. So what say you?
Click to expand...
I don't know what I'd do/want in that situation. I don't have any kind of weapon available at the moment, but I suppose I could throw dirty clothes at them.
 
Visbek said:
Please, spare us your completely baseless pseudo-psychology.

The OP is asking whether the potential threat of a home invasion by multiple armed individuals would make people want a gun. I'm pro-gun control, and that doesn't change because of a slightly ludicrous hypothetical, just as it hasn't changed when I've been threatened or confronted with violence in my own life.
Click to expand...

hardly baseless. as you claiming that those who don't carry because they don't want to, are afraid to, or cannot carry ARE ANTI GUN?

what sort of gun control do you want? lets examine your position
 
ernst barkmann said:
sorry no... you see, Madison was laying the fountain of our Constitution by HIMSELF, months before the convention.

Madison took the notes to the convention knowing the the interpretation of the constitution, as its clauses were being proposed, debated.... finally agreed on.

Madison along with a hand full of men, on the committee of style, put the Constitution together in its current form, even making some changes.

then Madison along with 2 others, wrote the federalist which explained the document and its clauses.

Madison then throughout his life continued to write and speak about the constitution, many people wrote to Madison wanting information on it, meaning his interpretation, since he is considered the father of it.....a title he did not like.

most of the founders, did little or no work on the constitution after they left the convention, Madison though created many pieces of work, and was even sought up to his final few years to clarify the document even more...people recognized him as the utmost authority on it.
Click to expand...

The opinion of one man is irrelevant next to the document itself.
 
Visbek said:
Please, spare us your completely baseless pseudo-psychology.

The OP is asking whether the potential threat of a home invasion by multiple armed individuals would make people want a gun. I'm pro-gun control, and that doesn't change because of a slightly ludicrous hypothetical, just as it hasn't changed when I've been threatened or confronted with violence in my own life.
Click to expand...

The scenario is arbitrary, but nevertheless, if you knew they were there to rape your wife and daughter would you want to do everything in your power to stop it? Or would you prefer to hide in a backroom and hope they don't come looking for you when they're done with them?

The point is, people who want to ban guns because "they'll statistically never use them" are forgetting about the people who do need them every single day to defend their lives and the lives of their family. Do you have a problem with that?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom