View Poll Results: Would you want a gun in this situation?

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  • I am anti-gun, and I would want a gun.

    2 2.94%
  • I am anti-gun, and I wouldn't want a gun.

    6 8.82%
  • I am pro-gun, and I would want a gun.

    58 85.29%
  • I am pro-gun, and I wouldn't want a gun.

    2 2.94%
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Thread: Would you want a gun in this situation?

  1. #251
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    Cephus's Avatar
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's a specious argument the fact that people owned cannon was not because of the 2A.
    Nothing was because of the 2A, the 2A came into being as a means to protect those people's rights to own those weapons.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #252
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Seriously, Glen, you are making less sense the farther you go. This will be my last attempt at education.

    (1) Caliber has nothing to do with whether or not a weapon is termed a rifle or a weapon. Whether or not it will fire multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger does. Actually, assault rifles are selective fire. Non selective automatics are termed machine guns. AR 15s are assault weapons. Please look it up.
    Guy, whatever you do or do not want to call it, it is still a rifle that can fire the same high-power round that an M-16 fires, am I correct?

    (2) You really believe that all sniper rifles should be banned based on the off chance that someone will use one in an assassination? That makes no sense, and certainly is at odds with your claim that you do not want to stop law abiding citizens from owning firearms.
    I don't know of any recent cases where arsenic was used to kill someone...so does that mean that we should allow just about anyone to buy arsenic? Just because someone hasn't used a weapon that is designed to be used to kill people does NOT mean that we should allow people to buy it...because sooner or later it WILL be used to kill people.

    Makes me wonder just which firearms you would allow. Could you enlighten me?
    No military-style sniper rifles, no semi-automatic rifles that can be fairly easily converted over to automatic fire, no large-capacity clips (if you'll remember, the only reason people were able to tackle the Arizona shooter was because he had to stop to change clips). I'd require training for any purchase of a new class of firearms (and the NRA can do this). I'd require registration and insurance.

    What does this leave law-abiding gun owners? Pretty much everything but sniper rifles and rifles that can be easily converted over to automatic fire. I know that's SUCH an intrusion on your oh-so-holy 2A freedom....

    (3) There is no practical way to stop baseball bats, bowling balls, tennis racquets from being used in crimes. Should these to be banned?
    bats, balls, and racquets are not designed to be used to kill people, are they? And for the life of me, I can't think of a massacre that's taken place using any of those.

    (4) I'm 76, I have a weapon(s). I do recognize the need to communicate.
    Good for you.
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  3. #253
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The only thing that matters is the original position, as written in the original documents because that's what was actually ratified by the states. Twisting things to make them conform to a modern approach isn't Constitutional.
    Arms

    In Colonial times "arms" usually meant weapons that could be carried. This included knives, swords, rifles and pistols. Dictionaries of the time had a separate definition for "ordinance" (as it was spelled then) meaning cannon. Any hand held, non-ordnance type weapons, are theoretically constitutionally protected. Obviously nuclear weapons, tanks, rockets, fighter planes, and submarines are not.

    Meaning of the words in the Second Amendment



  4. #254
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Nothing was because of the 2A, the 2A came into being as a means to protect those people's rights to own those weapons.
    wrong, your better argument is that nothing in the main body of the USC gave the government (Federal) power to regulate ordnance or artillery

    remember

    Meaning of the words in the Second Amendment



  5. #255
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Guy, whatever you do or do not want to call it, it is still a rifle that can fire the same high-power round that an M-16 fires, am I correct?



    I don't know of any recent cases where arsenic was used to kill someone...so does that mean that we should allow just about anyone to buy arsenic? Just because someone hasn't used a weapon that is designed to be used to kill people does NOT mean that we should allow people to buy it...because sooner or later it WILL be used to kill people.



    No military-style sniper rifles, no semi-automatic rifles that can be fairly easily converted over to automatic fire, no large-capacity clips (if you'll remember, the only reason people were able to tackle the Arizona shooter was because he had to stop to change clips). I'd require training for any purchase of a new class of firearms (and the NRA can do this). I'd require registration and insurance.

    What does this leave law-abiding gun owners? Pretty much everything but sniper rifles and rifles that can be easily converted over to automatic fire. I know that's SUCH an intrusion on your oh-so-holy 2A freedom....



    bats, balls, and racquets are not designed to be used to kill people, are they? And for the life of me, I can't think of a massacre that's taken place using any of those.



    Good for you.
    calling the 556 NATO round high powered again is more proof you are completely ignorant about firearms. a 556 NATO round is usually considered too UNDERPOWERED for hunting white tailed deer in many states. When you continually post crap that any person who has actually served in the military knows is crap, you have no credibility when arguing with people who know this stuff inside and out

    What is a sniper rifle Glen? You keep yapping about sniper rifles without being able to define one

    Ever heard of Carlos Hathcock? the rifle he won the national target championship with-an Old Winchester 70 in 30-06 with a 16 power Unertl scope (a common target rifle in the 60s"|: the model 70 in 30-06 might be the most popular hunting rifle for medium game up to black bear in the USA circa WWII-1975) was the SAME RIFLE he used to kill most of the 93 confirmed kills in Viet Nam

    A sniper rifle and a long range target rifle and a rifle for shooting pronghorn antelope or mountain goats are pretty much the same thing

    and thanks for now proving you are A GUN BANNER



    btw you cannot buy a semi auto that can be "EASILY CONVERTED to full auto"

    sorry Glen, you are a gun banner



  6. #256
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    To be honest though, the Supreme Court is often hobbled by the fact that the genie is out of the bottle and there's no real way to put it back and therefore, their decisions need to be practical, even if they stray from the Constitution.
    that sure was not the case with Citizens United.
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  7. #257
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    its rich that you talk about the TEXT OF THE ACTUAL CONSTITUTION when you do creative interpretation for the Commerce Clause and then pretend SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED does not prevent infringement


    the fact that it took 130+ years for someone to "find" a power to regulate small arms in the Commerce Clause shows how bankrupt your argument is
    It makes no difference how long it takes to discover truth.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #258
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you make me sad , because of your constant failings to prove the founders wrong.
    Where did I attempt to show the Constitution was wrong? What did I fail in.

    Lets see the evidence Herr Barkmann.... lets see it and to the devil with your own evaluation.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  9. #259
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It makes no difference how long it takes to discover truth.
    you would have a bit more credibility in your argument if you admit what almost everyone else knows

    FDR wanted to regulate machine guns and was told by his AG that the Constitution didn't allow it so they just made up the power

    to claim that the founders intended the CC as a gun control power is dishonest



  10. #260
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I have been posting on guns probably longer and in more depth than anyone on DP though there was this one guy who shows up every once in awhile who is pretty specific and well educated.

    I have always said the founders saw WEAPONS OF WAR in three CATEGORIES

    ARMS-what someone would keep and bear-muskets, spears, lances, swords, pistols, rifles, shotguns
    the stuff you'd bring to the muster if the village militia was called up

    ORDNANCE-bombs, rockets, grenades, greek fire

    ARTILLERY-Cannon, howitzers, mortars
    Unfortunately for that labored argument - the Constitution makes no such distinction.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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