View Poll Results: Would you want a gun in this situation?

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  • I am anti-gun, and I would want a gun.

    2 2.94%
  • I am anti-gun, and I wouldn't want a gun.

    6 8.82%
  • I am pro-gun, and I would want a gun.

    58 85.29%
  • I am pro-gun, and I wouldn't want a gun.

    2 2.94%
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Thread: Would you want a gun in this situation?

  1. #241
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Yet there are tons of Libertarians who make that exact argument. Nice try to squirm your way out of an honest question though.
    I have been posting on guns probably longer and in more depth than anyone on DP though there was this one guy who shows up every once in awhile who is pretty specific and well educated.

    I have always said the founders saw WEAPONS OF WAR in three CATEGORIES

    ARMS-what someone would keep and bear-muskets, spears, lances, swords, pistols, rifles, shotguns
    the stuff you'd bring to the muster if the village militia was called up

    ORDNANCE-bombs, rockets, grenades, greek fire

    ARTILLERY-Cannon, howitzers, mortars



  2. #242
    Sage
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The US Supreme Court says otherwise. So you have your right to an opinion but as it has no force of law and the actual force of law says the opposite - that is all that counts in the real world USA of 2014.

    This will help you on that issue:

    CRS/LII Annotated Constitution Article I
    To be honest though, the Supreme Court is often hobbled by the fact that the genie is out of the bottle and there's no real way to put it back and therefore, their decisions need to be practical, even if they stray from the Constitution.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #243
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The truth is that your opinion is irrelevant next to the actual Constitution. can you deal with that?
    its rich that you talk about the TEXT OF THE ACTUAL CONSTITUTION when you do creative interpretation for the Commerce Clause and then pretend SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED does not prevent infringement


    the fact that it took 130+ years for someone to "find" a power to regulate small arms in the Commerce Clause shows how bankrupt your argument is



  4. #244
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The truth is that your opinion is irrelevant next to the actual Constitution. can you deal with that?
    you make me sad , because of your constant failings to prove the founders wrong.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-14-14 at 08:39 PM.

  5. #245
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The US Supreme Court says otherwise. So you have your right to an opinion but as it has no force of law and the actual force of law says the opposite - that is all that counts in the real world USA of 2014.

    This will help you on that issue:

    CRS/LII Annotated Constitution Article I
    that's another dishonest argument because we all understand that the ND supreme court ignored the actual words of the constitution to suck up to FDR



  6. #246
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I have been posting on guns probably longer and in more depth than anyone on DP though there was this one guy who shows up every once in awhile who is pretty specific and well educated.

    I have always said the founders saw WEAPONS OF WAR in three CATEGORIES

    ARMS-what someone would keep and bear-muskets, spears, lances, swords, pistols, rifles, shotguns
    the stuff you'd bring to the muster if the village militia was called up

    ORDNANCE-bombs, rockets, grenades, greek fire

    ARTILLERY-Cannon, howitzers, mortars
    Which, of course, didn't apply to the people at the time that the Constitution was written. People were free to own cannons and other period armaments and were expected to bring them out for use in time of war. There was no standing military, the second amendment was not written with one in mind. But don't let that get in the way of your little rant.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #247
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    To be honest though, the Supreme Court is often hobbled by the fact that the genie is out of the bottle and there's no real way to put it back and therefore, their decisions need to be practical, even if they stray from the Constitution.
    that is essentially the Scalia and Calebresi (Steven, not Guido, argument which has been called (By Calabresi most recently) the "Faint hearted originalist position



  8. #248
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which, of course, didn't apply to the people at the time that the Constitution was written. People were free to own cannons and other period armaments and were expected to bring them out for use in time of war. There was no standing military, the second amendment was not written with one in mind. But don't let that get in the way of your little rant.
    that's a specious argument the fact that people owned cannon was not because of the 2A.



  9. #249
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yes I can do better. lets make a wager Herr Barkmann. If you can offer proof that the preamble to the Bill of Rights was ratified by the proper number of states and is an official part of the Constitution then I will leave here and never return in any form. If you fail to do so then you leave and never return.

    Now you cannot get any better than that.

    Ready to put your existence where your beliefs are?

    here you go hay......its a picture of the bill of rights with the preamble on it.

    Bill of Rights Large View


    George Washington had fourteen handwritten copies of the Bill of Rights made, one for Congress and one for each of the original thirteen states.[95] The copies for Georgia, Maryland, New York, and Pennsylvania went missing. The New York copy is thought to have been destroyed in a fire,[96] whereas the Pennsylvania copy was taken by a soldier sometime in April 1865.[97] Two unidentified copies of the missing four (thought to be the Georgia and Maryland copies) survive; one is in the National Archives,[98][99] and the other is in the New York Public Library.[100] North Carolina's copy was stolen by a Union soldier in April 1865 and returned to North Carolina in 2005 by FBI Special Agent Robert King Wittman.[100][101]

    The National Archives and Records Administration copy of the Bill of Rights is on display in the Rotunda for the Charters of Freedom. The Rotunda itself was constructed in the 1950s and dedicated in 1952 by President Harry S. Truman, who said, "Only as these documents are reflected in the thoughts and acts of Americans, can they remain symbols of power that can move the world. That power is our faith in human liberty".[102]

    After fifty years, signs of deterioration in the casing were noted, while the documents themselves appeared to be well preserved.[103] Accordingly, the casing was updated and the Rotunda rededicated on September 17, 2003. In his dedicatory remarks, President George W. Bush stated, "The true [American] revolution was not to defy one earthly power, but to declare principles that stand above every earthly power—the equality of each person before God, and the responsibility of government to secure the rights of all."[104] In 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt declared December 15 to be Bill of Rights Day, commemorating the 150th anniversary of the ratification of the Bill of Rights.[105] In 1991, the Virginia copy of the Bill of Rights toured the country in honor of its bicentennial, visiting the capitals of all fifty states.[106]

  10. #250
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    Re: Would you want a gun in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is essentially the Scalia and Calebresi (Steven, not Guido, argument which has been called (By Calabresi most recently) the "Faint hearted originalist position
    The only thing that matters is the original position, as written in the original documents because that's what was actually ratified by the states. Twisting things to make them conform to a modern approach isn't Constitutional.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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