Was Jesus White?

Gardener said:

At least the black racialist portion of the left that isn't really liberal, but just pushing an identity-based agenda, anyway.

Just as"the right" includes various neo-Nazis, God hates Fags types, survivalists and whatnot, the left includes all manner of people who are similarly far from the mainstream. THe trick, here, is to learn to define either left or right by the more reasonable portions thereof rather than the fringes.

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Ever since Obama ran for President, all we get is racial **** from those Lefties.

American said:

Ever since Obama ran for President, all we get is racial **** from those Lefties.

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It's the only trump card they have left to counter the last 5 years of flailing and bungling. :shrug:

Gardener said:

At least the black racialist portion of the left that isn't really liberal, but just pushing an identity-based agenda, anyway.

Just as"the right" includes various neo-Nazis, God hates Fags types, survivalists and whatnot, the left includes all manner of people who are similarly far from the mainstream. THe trick, here, is to learn to define either left or right by the more reasonable portions thereof rather than the fringes.

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American said:

Ever since Obama ran for President, all we get is racial **** from those Lefties.

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Ockham said:

It's the only trump card they have left to counter the last 5 years of flailing and bungling. :shrug:

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The right has been race baiting since Richard Nixon, that's the only trump card they have left, because otherwise no one would vote for a party that believes in everyone giving money to rich people and letting them trickle it back down. They have that trump card and homophobia.

American said:

Ever since Obama ran for President, all we get is racial **** from those Lefties.

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as well as racial **** from righties.

Between the large portions of the left refusing to recognize that bigotry and hatred arising from blacks isn't any different from similar views arising from whites and the portions of the right engaging in it while denying they are doin so,far too many people are simply engaging in political tribalism. Precious few people think independently of whatever political label they have assigned to themselves.

Ad_Captandum said:

Just out of sheer, morbid curiosity at what you folks think.

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Not sure why you described him in two of the options given as an arab. Semetic hebrew people were not arab.

If he existed at all he was a hebrew guy of semetic origins. Clearly that would not have been white like a northern european but more like many people of the mediterranean region.

Either way what does it matter? There is no evidence he existed at all although it is feasible that a man ( not a divine god ) may have started the whole thing.

Soupnazi630 said:

Not sure why you described him in two of the options given as an arab. Semetic hebrew people were not arab.

If he existed at all he was a hebrew guy of semetic origins. Clearly that would not have been white like a northern european but more like many people of the mediterranean region.

Either way what does it matter? There is no evidence he existed at all although it is feasible that a man ( not a divine god ) may have started the whole thing.

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The evidence that exists indicates that Jesus was divine. No man is crucified for something he did not do and prays for forgiveness for the perpetrators of such nonsense.

MildSteel said:

The right has been race baiting since Richard Nixon, that's the only trump card they have left, because otherwise no one would vote for a party that believes in everyone giving money to rich people and letting them trickle it back down. They have that trump card and homophobia.

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So "I know you are but what am I" is your response. Brilliant!

Ockham said:

So "I know you are but what am I" is your response. Brilliant!

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I'm not so sure I understand. But let me say this, the left does indeed pander to race, but the right does the same thing. That's the filth of politics.

Gardener said:

as well as racial **** from righties.

Between the large portions of the left refusing to recognize that bigotry and hatred arising from blacks isn't any different from similar views arising from whites and the portions of the right engaging in it while denying they are doin so,far too many people are simply engaging in political tribalism. Precious few people think independently of whatever political label they have assigned to themselves.

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Maybe, but Obama is engaging in his social justice agenda using racism as a political tool. He's done it many times, notably the Zimmerman case where he turned that case into a racial circus.

MildSteel said:

I'm not so sure I understand. But let me say this, the left does indeed pander to race, but the right does the same thing. That's the filth of politics.

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So, instead of indulging in all your black racialist, illiberal b.s., perhaps you could learn to express yourself in ways that display you have not embraced this filth to which you refer.

Simply mirroring the prejudice you have faced does not show any personal growth. Trandscending it does.

American said:

Maybe, but Obama is engaging in his social justice agenda using racism as a political tool. He's done it many times, notably the Zimmerman case where he turned that case into a racial circus.

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It was Obama that turned it into a circus,was it?


Seems to me that the high wire act, dancing bears, clowns, sword swallowers and lion tamers were already in full display before he ever commented.

Gardener said:

So, instead of indulging in all your black racialist, illiberal b.s., perhaps you could learn to express yourself in ways that display you have not embraced this filth to which you refer.

Simply mirroring the prejudice you have faced does not show any personal growth. Trandscending it does.

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There hasn't been a damn thing racist about what I have posted in these forums. I have posted what is the truth. The truth is that there is a lot of racism that exists in some whites this country.

MildSteel said:

There hasn't been a damn thing racist about what I have posted in these forums. I have posted what is the truth. The truth is that there is a lot of racism that exists in some whites this country.

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You turn everything into a matter of race, point fingers at whites and Jews, and otherwise fail to distinguish your own attitudes from those you loathe.

MildSteel said:

The evidence that exists indicates that Jesus was divine. No man is crucified for something he did not do and prays for forgiveness for the perpetrators of such nonsense.

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Lol.

Well actually you are quite wrong people can be executed in many ways including crucifiction and they often do make such last minute prayers of forgiveness. Dying in peace and accepting ones fate with dignity or some such thing.

Second of all there is no evidence he existed and therefore that he was crucified and therefore that he made any such prayer.

The gospels are not evidence of his existence or divinity.

Gardener said:

You turn everything into a matter of race, point fingers at whites and Jews, and otherwise fail to distinguish your own attitudes from those you loathe.

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I don't turn every matter into race. People here do it. I just respond in kind to it. I don't have a thing against white people, based on them being white. It's when some of them start that white racist crap that the problem arises.

Soupnazi630 said:

Lol.

Well actually you are quite wrong people can be executed in many ways including crucifiction and they often do make such last minute prayers of forgiveness. Dying in peace and accepting ones fate with dignity or some such thing.

Second of all there is no evidence he existed and therefore that he was crucified and therefore that he made any such prayer.

The gospels are not evidence of his existence or divinity.

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Give me an example of someone being crucified in that way and praying thus.

MildSteel said:

Give me an example of someone being crucified in that way and praying thus.

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Thousands of not tens or hundreds of thousands were crucified few had their last words recorded. As I said many people are executed in many ways and before facing thenoose or cross or needle or chair or whatever people make dying statements and sometimes forgive those executing them. try surfing and browsing the last words of executed criminals. If it happens today there is no reason to believe it did not happen 2000 years ago.

And once again you are missing the point that there is no evidence he existed and therfore none that he was cricified.

There simply is truth or logic to claiming that forgiving ones executioners is evidence of divinity.

MildSteel said:

I don't turn every matter into race. People here do it. I just respond in kind to it. I don't have a thing against white people, based on them being white. It's when some of them start that white racist crap that the problem arises.

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Ah -- so that's why you keep starting all these race threads. It's because others are somehow responsible.


Is the concept of taking responsibilty for your own actions rather than blaming them on others a foreign concept to you?

Soupnazi630 said:

Thousands of not tens or hundreds of thousands were crucified few had their last words recorded. As I said many people are executed in many ways and before facing thenoose or cross or needle or chair or whatever people make dying statements and sometimes forgive those executing them. try surfing and browsing the last words of executed criminals. If it happens today there is no reason to believe it did not happen 2000 years ago.

And once again you are missing the point that there is no evidence he existed and therfore none that he was cricified.

There simply is truth or logic to claiming that forgiving ones executioners is evidence of divinity.

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There is evidence that he existed. There is written record that he did. So you can't say there is no evidence. Now you may question the reliability of that evidence, and that's ok. But you can't say there is none there.

Not only that but you can't provide an instance of someone being tortured in such a cruel way, put to death, and then asking for forgiveness of the perpetrators. Where is that person? Give me one example of someone being tortured like that, and being put to death like that and asking for forgiveness for the perpetrators like that. Furthermore, the vast difference in the case of Jesus, is that Jesus lived a life where he not only taught, but practiced such forgiveness. Which person in Europe prior to Jesus taught people to love their enemies? Which person in Europe prior to Jesus taught people to turn the other cheek? Indeed prior to his torture and crucifixion Jesus taught the following

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

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Indeed these are truly divine principles. No one was talking about such things in Europe before Jesus. That's the evidence of the divine nature of Jesus.

Jesus as beyond awesome. In this world all you see is people wanting revenge and hating. Jesus was divine. It is because he had transcended the material world and the bodily concept of life. He had thoroughly realized the truth that indeed he was from the Supreme, Divine, Transcendental, Almighty God.

Gardener said:

Ah -- so that's why you keep starting all these race threads. It's because others are somehow responsible.


Is the concept of taking responsibilty for your own actions rather than blaming them on others a foreign concept to you?

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I take full responsibility for what I have said, and there is nothing racist about what I have said. I don't see you criticizing people for saying that mixed race children are susceptible disease. Take some responsibility and speak out. I don't see you criticizing people for saying that white women who marry blacks are less educated and intelligent. Why don't you speak out then? Take some responsibility. Maybe you don't speak out because you agree with them. But if I start talking about the racist things that whites do, I'm a racist. Your position is BS.

MildSteel said:

There is evidence that he existed. There is written record that he did. So you can't say there is no evidence. Now you may question the reliability of that evidence, and that's ok. But you can't say there is none there.

Not only that but you can't provide an instance of someone being tortured in such a cruel way, put to death, and then asking for forgiveness of the perpetrators. Where is that person? Give me one example of someone being tortured like that, and being put to death like that and asking for forgiveness for the perpetrators like that. Furthermore, the vast difference in the case of Jesus, is that Jesus lived a life where he not only taught, but practiced such forgiveness. Which person in Europe prior to Jesus taught people to love their enemies? Which person in Europe prior to Jesus taught people to turn the other cheek? Indeed prior to his torture and crucifixion Jesus taught the following



Indeed these are truly divine principles. No one was talking about such things in Europe before Jesus. That's the evidence of the divine nature of Jesus.

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There is no evidcence that he existed yes I can say that because it is fact and you are dead wrong.

The bible is not written record of his existence as it was wirtten long after his presumed life and death. Therefore it is not contemporaneous with his life. In fact no historical secular or written history exists of him prior to decades after his presumed life and death. The easliest known reference is not even directly about him but about his followers. Roman records exist of written correspondence between various officials who discussed his followers and therefore made referrence to him by name but nothing more specific than that

One more time I cannot provide an example when so many hundreds of thousands have been executed without a record of what they said.

It is a false assumption on your part that NONE of them did so. In modern executions it is not uncommon for people to forgive the executioners. Therefore it is not reasonable to assume as you do that no one would have done so in the past. Your claim is that you know and CAN know what people will think and say when faced with death you do not and cannot.

Yes people were talking about such things before jesus. Not in the same way or with the same details but in fact they did. Nothign in Jesus message was new it is as old as humanity. Sanscrit writings and others which pre date jesus by millenia describe the same basic messages of morality. Men did not need an obscure rumor of a jewish prophet to understand christian morality.

BTw Jesus was not european so I fail to see why you focus on that part of the world.

Soupnazi630 said:

There is no evidcence that he existed yes I can say that because it is fact and you are dead wrong.

The bible is not written record of his existence as it was wirtten long after his presumed life and death. Therefore it is not contemporaneous with his life. In fact no historical secular or written history exists of him prior to decades after his presumed life and death. The easliest known reference is not even directly about him but about his followers. Roman records exist of written correspondence between various officials who discussed his followers and therefore made referrence to him by name but nothing more specific than that

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You cannot conclusively prove that the manuscripts that are there were not written from either the firsthand accounts of witnesses to the events or from actual written, recorded manuscripts of the events that were contemporaneously recorded with his life. And that is a fact. And because that is, in fact the case, you cannot say there is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus did, in fact exist.

Soupnazi630 said:

One more time I cannot provide an example when so many hundreds of thousands have been executed without a record of what they said.

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You cannot provide one example because there is no one that has been tortured in that way and then put to death that has prayed for forgiveness in such a manner. Not only that no one has lived such a life and preached such forgiveness before being tortured and put to death in such a way. It's simply is not possible except for someone who is under the influence of the divine energy of the Supreme Lord, the father of Jesus.

Soupnazi630 said:

It is a false assumption on your part that NONE of them did so. In modern executions it is not uncommon for people to forgive the executioners. Therefore it is not reasonable to assume as you do that no one would have done so in the past. Your claim is that you know and CAN know what people will think and say when faced with death you do not and cannot.

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It is not a false assumption because no one has been tortured and put to death in that way and then asked for forgiveness for the perpetrators. It's not possible. And again, Jesus taught that, practiced it in his life prior to that, and then demonstrated by example what is the nature of divine behavior that is inspired by genuine, transcendental realization of the almighty God. I can tell you this, if you did such things to me, I would curse you to burn in hell. And if I did that to you, you would certainly not pray for me, you would hate me, that is a fact.

Soupnazi630 said:

Yes people were talking about such things before jesus. Not in the same way or with the same details but in fact they did. Nothign in Jesus message was new it is as old as humanity. Sanscrit writings and others which pre date jesus by millenia describe the same basic messages of morality. Men did not need an obscure rumor of a jewish prophet to understand christian morality.

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Now you are cooking with gas. Indeed that is the evidence that Jesus was divine. In particular the writings of Vyasa, such as the Vedanta Sutras and the Puranas, have elaborately elucidated on the nature of the Supreme Sentient Being, the Father from which everything is coming, the subordinate sentient beings, the material nature, i.e. maya shakti, and what are the symptoms of saintly persons. There have been many saintly self realized persons who have confirmed what Vyasa has stated. The behavior of Jesus is consistent with what is described in those writings as being of under the influence of the divine energy of the Supreme Lord. Those things were not known in that part of the world and Jesus took the practice of Judaism to the next level.

Soupnazi630 said:

BTw Jesus was not european so I fail to see why you focus on that part of the world.

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Jesus preached in the area of Palestine which is part of Europe.

Gardener said:

Jesus was not white. He was olive bistre tanning to a particularly fine shade of burnt sienna by midsummer.

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Give us an example of someone famous who is the same shade you are talking about.

Goshin said:

He was Jewish. Not Arab.


Most likely, he was a bit darker than the Nordics, but probably not dark enough to be considered 'brown'.


Modern Jews, you may have noted, include quite a range of coloration... probably less so then, but a mid-range complexion seems likely.

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The only distinction between Jews and Arabs is (usually) their religion, and in Israel, by convention, their parent's religion.

Ethnically, they are both Semitic peoples.

It is equally ethnically accurate to call Jesus, for all intents and purposes, an Arab. He was just Jewish by faith.