View Poll Results: Was Jesus White?

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  • Yep, white as a Viking, despite being an Arab!

    8 20.00%
  • Yes, because Arabs are white, too. Have you ever actually looked at a Lebanese person?

    5 12.50%
  • No, he wasn't white, because Arabs aren't white, only European are white.

    27 67.50%
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Thread: Was Jesus White?

  1. #191
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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    A lot may depend on what color his daddy was/is....right?




    So what color is "god"?
    Clear, obviously.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  2. #192
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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    ....snip....
    And again, you cannot directly observe mass. But you can observe it's effect which is motion. Similarly you cannot directly observe God with material senses, but you can observe God's effect in the form of sentience.



    In science any hypothesis will have underlying assumptions, things that are not proven to be true. And observations are made to test the validity of the hypothesis under those assumptions. And that is all science does or can do.
    That is one hell of an assumption, and one made in absence of evidence.....which defines it as opinion. There are absolutely no observations whatsoever to point toward a "God" creating sentience....and in fact many to dismiss the hypothesis out of hand.

    We can assume cetaceans are sentient beings based on many factors that indicate they think, communicate, and are biologically capable of "Knowing" what they are....but this "God" thingy apparently did not create them in it's image.

    By the way...where do you fit gravity into your assumed measurements of mass.

  3. #193
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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    That is one hell of an assumption, and one made in absence of evidence.....which defines it as opinion. There are absolutely no observations whatsoever to point toward a "God" creating sentience....and in fact many to dismiss the hypothesis out of hand.

    We can assume cetaceans are sentient beings based on many factors that indicate they think, communicate, and are biologically capable of "Knowing" what they are....but this "God" thingy apparently did not create them in it's image.

    By the way...where do you fit gravity into your assumed measurements of mass.
    It is no more of a hell of an assumption than the assumption that something we call a mass exists. I can similarly say that there is absolutely no observations whatsoever that something called a mass creates force. And therefore it's only a opinion. And actually, in a certain sense that is true. That was just Newton's opinion. But because Newton was able to explain certain types of motion, from his opinion, we accept that the concept of mass is indeed useful for certain types of problems in physics.

    Furthermore that fact that, as you have pointed out, that sentient beings think, communicate and are capable of knowing what they are, is evidence that they have been created by a superior sentience that thinks, communicates, and is capable of knowing what it is. It is not an unreasonable assumption at all.

    And with regards to gravity, that is also based on the assumption that there is a force called gravity that is directly proportional to the product of an object with a mass of A, another object with a mass of B, and is inversely proportional the squared distance between the two objects. That is what Newton assumed and it is known as Newton's law of gravitation.

  4. #194
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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It is no more of a hell of an assumption than the assumption that something we call a mass exists. I can similarly say that there is absolutely no observations whatsoever that something called a mass creates force. And therefore it's only a opinion. And actually, in a certain sense that is true. That was just Newton's opinion. But because Newton was able to explain certain types of motion, from his opinion, we accept that the concept of mass is indeed useful for certain types of problems in physics.

    Furthermore that fact that, as you have pointed out, that sentient beings think, communicate and are capable of knowing what they are, is evidence that they have been created by a superior sentience that thinks, communicates, and is capable of knowing what it is. It is not an unreasonable assumption at all.

    And with regards to gravity, that is also based on the assumption that there is a force called gravity that is directly proportional to the product of an object with a mass of A, another object with a mass of B, and is inversely proportional the squared distance between the two objects. That is what Newton assumed and it is known as Newton's law of gravitation.
    I disagree, the two assumptions are extremely different as one it based on observed and verified data and the other on....well, books written by men.

    We regularly see, feel, and manipulate the forces of gravity and mass....the only things we see from God, might be faith healing.

    I think we all know how that works out in the end.

  5. #195
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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    I disagree, the two assumptions are extremely different as one it based on observed and verified data and the other on....well, books written by men.

    We regularly see, feel, and manipulate the forces of gravity and mass....the only things we see from God, might be faith healing.

    I think we all know how that works out in the end.
    I disagree with you. Sentience is a phenomenon that is observed, and it is quite reasonable to assume, from the observation of sentience itself, that it is produced by a superior sentient being. That is reasonable and furthermore, it is quite unreasonable to assume that it did not. If it did not then one would have to assume that it is the product of dull matter, which is insentient, which is an absurd notion because one is then left with trying to explain how could something that is insentient produce something that is sentient. It's total foolishness. Therefore the reasonable assumption is that sentience is produced by a superior sentience, God. I don't deny that it is an assumption, but it is a reasonable assumption based on evidence.

    Furthermore things like the force of gravity are the indirect effects of the energy of God. But we can measure the direct effects of God's divine energy by observing how that energy effects sentience in the form of divine qualities, such as tolerance, mercy, an absence of the conception that others are enemies, cleanliness, self control, and truthfulness. Jesus exhibited these qualities to a very high degree and therefore, we can understand that he was indeed motivated, under the influence if you will, of a very pure type of love of God.

  6. #196
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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I disagree with you. Sentience is a phenomenon that is observed, and it is quite reasonable to assume, from the observation of sentience itself, that it is produced by a superior sentient being. That is reasonable and furthermore, it is quite unreasonable to assume that it did not. If it did not then one would have to assume that it is the product of dull matter, which is insentient, which is an absurd notion because one is then left with trying to explain how could something that is insentient produce something that is sentient. It's total foolishness. Therefore the reasonable assumption is that sentience is produced by a superior sentience, God. I don't deny that it is an assumption, but it is a reasonable assumption based on evidence.

    Furthermore things like the force of gravity are the indirect effects of the energy of God. But we can measure the direct effects of God's divine energy by observing how that energy effects sentience in the form of divine qualities, such as tolerance, mercy, an absence of the conception that others are enemies, cleanliness, self control, and truthfulness. Jesus exhibited these qualities to a very high degree and therefore, we can understand that he was indeed motivated, under the influence if you will, of a very pure type of love of God.
    Rather than play this silly game....let's just cut to the chase:

    Please provide the evidence used to designate the assumption that sentience must reasonably have come from sentience, or indeed how it could have?

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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Rather than play this silly game....let's just cut to the chase:

    Please provide the evidence used to designate the assumption that sentience must reasonably have come from sentience, or indeed how it could have?
    I have clearly stated it. What is it that you don't understand about what I have said? It's reasonable to assume that sentience has come from a superior sentience, otherwise we are left to assume that it comes from matter, which is insentient and is a ridiculous notion because we would have to explain how something that is insentient produced something that is sentient. I fail to see why you don't see that this is a reasonable assumption.

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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I have clearly stated it. What is it that you don't understand about what I have said? It's reasonable to assume that sentience has come from a superior sentience, otherwise we are left to assume that it comes from matter, which is insentient and is a ridiculous notion because we would have to explain how something that is insentient produced something that is sentient. I fail to see why you don't see that this is a reasonable assumption.
    You have provided nothing but unsubstantiated opinion. We see evolution produce more complex brains as time goes by, and it is far more likely that this allowed for what we term as "sentience" than that a magic man poofed it into existence. It is not reasonable to assume "God did it" when there is no evidence of the instigator existing at all.

  9. #199
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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    You have provided nothing but unsubstantiated opinion. We see evolution produce more complex brains as time goes by, and it is far more likely that this allowed for what we term as "sentience" than that a magic man poofed it into existence. It is not reasonable to assume "God did it" when there is no evidence of the instigator existing at all.
    There is no direct evidence that mass causes motion. There is simply no direct evidence that mass exists. It is something that is measured from other observable quantities. This is because the notion of mass is an assumption that is used to explain motion. There is no way around this. In a similar way, we can observe sentience, and it's reasonable to assume that sentience has come from a superior sentience. If you don't say that, you are left with trying to explain how sentience has come from something that is insentient. And you cannot give a reasonable explanation for it. You can make the statement that we observe brains evolving, but where did the brains come from? Not only that, but ultimately, the brain is just a configuration of atoms. For your assumption that sentience has come from matter to be reasonable, you need to explain how is it that such atoms have integrated their activity in such a way as to form the integrated notion of sentience. It's a totally absurd notion that sentience has come from matter.

  10. #200
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    Re: Was Jesus White?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    No you do not, and you have demonstrated that you do not really understand Newton's second law. Not only that but you cannot answer a rather simple question about motion. It is a fact that the concept of mass is something that is assumed to exist under Newtonian mechanics. In fact, the only precise definition of it is the mathematical relationship F = m * a. Other than that, you really can't say much else about exactly what it is.



    Yes mass can be measured, but what is observed is motion or a quantity that can ultimately be expressed in terms of motion, not mass itself, because again, mass is something that was assumed so that motion could be quantitatively described in mathematical equations. Scientists establish units of force such as Newtons and from there, based on motion they measure the assumed quantity mass. For instance the hanging spring scale that is found in some grocery stores. The mass of the grocery items is computed not from observing the mass of the items but from observing the displacement, or motion of the spring. This is very simple, basic physics, that even someone in high school who has been taught properly would know. It's ridiculous to argue such a notion. Mass is assumed to exist and is described in terms of it's mathematical relationship to force.



    And again, you cannot directly observe mass. But you can observe it's effect which is motion. Similarly you cannot directly observe God with material senses, but you can observe God's effect in the form of sentience.



    In science any hypothesis will have underlying assumptions, things that are not proven to be true. And observations are made to test the validity of the hypothesis under those assumptions. And that is all science does or can do.
    Mass is directly observed and measured not just the motion that is fact.

    Science runs off of observations not assumptions you simply know nothing of science.

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