View Poll Results: Is man just a really smart monkey

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  • Yes, man is just a really smart monkey

    34 70.83%
  • No, manis something different than an animal, something superior even.

    14 29.17%
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Thread: Is man just a really smart monkey

  1. #81
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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Quote Originally Posted by USViking View Post
    Incorrect. Our tool-making had already given evidence of radical divergence. It occurs to me to mention that our art work and language also did.



    But not one which erodes our position in the intelligence hierarchy at all.



    Again: if cetaceans were anywhere near as smart as humans we would have discovered so in the course of our ongoing, decades-long, 24/7/365 study of them. That goes especially for their languages, a subject of special concentration. If for example they recited poetry to each other we would know about it by now. We would also know it if they could be trained to do even simple arithmetic
    How do we know they don't recite poetry to each other if we don't understand their language? Anyway, ancient man, pre literate man, didn't recite poetry either.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    How do we know they don't recite poetry to each other if we don't understand their language?
    Rhythm (as in Blank Verse) would distinguish it from prose. A dolphin ought to be able to speak in iambs as easily as we. Poetics experts could probably detect other regularities such as those roughly equivalent to the syllable counts which define Haiku. I do not accept Free Verse as a legitimate poetic form.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Anyway, ancient man, pre literate man, didn't recite poetry either.
    Incorrect. Google "preliterate poetry" on that note. Homer himself may have composed during during a preliterate era in a preliterate environment, see link:

    The New York Review of Books: Homer's Literacy (1992)

    (from link):
    Oxford University Press has just published a new three-volume Commentary on Homerís Odyssey that will be the standard work for generations to come. Significantly, of the six contributors, of whom I am one, some believe in oral composition, some prefer to see a writing Homer, and some take no clear position on the question.
    Also, how did the argument become confined to prehistorical humans? Whatever the reason for the delay in the neolithic revolution, human technical superiority was clearly established from the start of the archaeological record, and the modern gap is so stupendous that it is really not worth arguing about.

  3. #83
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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Human languages are most certainly not the only means of communication, let alone the mechanics of it's verbalized or written form. It is known that plants communicate, as do virtually every animal on our planet in one form or another. Attempting to use the human centric mentality to discuss communication ability denies the realities of our natural world....let alone anything else in the universe.

    Do Chimps communicate....obviously they do, but we are unable to figure out what they are saying.
    Are we simply a "Smart" ape....we are far more than that, but indeed can be referred to as such.

  4. #84
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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Humans are great apes, along with Orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and bonobos, not monkeys.
    Yes, we are primates/apes and not monkeys and we might be the smartest one among these primates but superior? Yes, in weapons making, killing, building, etc. etc. etc. we are superior to our ape cousins. But are we so sure we are morally superior? Great apes sometimes kill their own but not an a level we humans do. Great apes also do not kill the planet the live on, we do that. We might be the smartest but that does not make us superior to primates on a whole host of issues.
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  5. #85
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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I have been seeing alot of stuff lately on elephants, dolphins etc that show compassion for other beings and seem to understand death at some level and mourn the passing of others. I always thought things like this is what separated man from animals but now I am beginning to wonder.
    There really is nothing special about man that separates us from the rest of the animals on this planet. All life on planet earth is related by some distant cousin. The only difference between man and many animals is the level of consciousness we have vs other animals. Our ability to use our self awareness to effect the environment around us. All other animals have this same trait to varying degrees and it all depends on how evolved their brains are. Human brains have evolved much quicker and have grown a frontal cortex which allows us to use consciousness and critical thinking. The frontal cortex is what keeps us from acting on our primal instincts to harm each other and other animals needlessly.
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  6. #86
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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Personally, I believe that domesticated dogs are superior to humans .
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  7. #87
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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not according to Manc Skipper's post 27.

    No one has taught dolphins math. They've figured it out on their own.

    And expecting a creature without binocular vision, hands, or arms to read and write numeric symbols is really asking a lot.
    And dolphins communicate over long distances without cellphones or anything.

    I've believed the only teason we are having a hard time communicating with dolphins is the simple facte we are primarily visual and they are primarily echololocators.

    And they probably demonstrated intelligence by going BACK to the ocean where living is easier.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  8. #88
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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Quote Originally Posted by USViking View Post
    Surely devices of some kind could easily be designed to test the hypothesis that dolphins have literacy potential- perhaps a set of letters on blocks with some kind of slotted boards to put them on.



    This link is completely suspect because it has a section favorable to the infamous scientific quack Thomas Van Flandern. Van Flandern, among other things, believed the "face" on Mars is of ETI origin, and that gravity propagated 20 billion times the speed of light.
    Arrogant to demand dolphins learn to write in YOUR language.

    They have their own, and no need to write things down. Maybe you should learn THEIR language.

    They may not communicate with us because they think WE are beneath THEM.

    And humpback song changes every year. Coyld be epic poetry for all you know.

    The dolphin neocortex poses a problem with your position, as that is what purportedly makes us "different" from other animals.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  9. #89
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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    And dolphins communicate over long distances without cellphones or anything.

    I've believed the only teason we are having a hard time communicating with dolphins is the simple facte we are primarily visual and they are primarily echololocators.

    And they probably demonstrated intelligence by going BACK to the ocean where living is easier.
    The reasons for cetacean movement back into the oceans had more to do with food and survival than intelligence....unless we are referring to the ephemeral intelligence of the evolutionary process rather than a grouping of animals. It is fascinating to imagine how a hippo can become a whale though...and wonder what these creatures "Think".

    Here is a wonderful example of them thinking....and playing:


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    Re: Is man just a really smart monkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Your theory is that agriculture is the spark that started everything else. That could be so. If it is, then the development of agriculture is the single biggest advance in human history.
    It also gave us social hierarchy, the manager class, nepotism and the ability to wage war (can't wage war if you have to stop a couple times a day to find something to eat.)

    I highly recommend "Guns Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond on this subject.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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