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Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

Who is more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun, or the one who doesn't?

  • The person who feels he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    Votes: 28 77.8%

  • The person who does NOT feel he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    Votes: 8 22.2%
  • Total voters
    36
haymarket said:
I have never made any bones of the reality that the Dec lied about many things. I have never said otherwise. Loving this nation means you can accept the reality of its lies and still love the American people in spite of them.
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your problem haymarket is you all over the place.

you SIGHT constitutional law, then you sight reality, and then always run back to the USSC.

you cannot sight the writings of constitutional law for a position.....and then defend it with reality and USSC.

THE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW and reality are from two different planets.
 
TurtleDude said:
so if the government says open carry is permitted, people don't have that right

we all know that the federal government does not have the power to tell people how they can carry or display arms except in limited circumstances (like federal courthouses) so it is a state issue and if a state's constitution allows open carry then they DO HAVE THAT RIGHT whether you LIKE IT OR NOT.

the false delusion is the in minds of the gun tremblers who claim they have a right not to be upset
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What is a "gun trembler"? Is that a person with a shaky hand with a firearm in their possession? ;)

By all means please present the law supporting your claims. My copy of the US Constitution lists several powers of Congress in the area of firearms that you apparently do not have in yours. We disagree all the time on this Turtle. All the time. You also disagree with the federal government and with many laws and Court decisions in this area.

So having said that - and meaning no disrespect to you as a person - why should I believe anything you say on this since you have presented your opinion to me many many many times before as law and it was obviously not true then? For example, the Constitiution says the Congress shall have the power to regulate, arm and discipline the militia. And we know from law that all able bodied persons are in the militia. But your position is that Congress can do no such thing.

So again - no disrespect to you as a person - but why should I believe you on this when most of these things come down to an interpretation of the law that is NOT CUT AND DRY and are areas which even attorneys and legal experts disagree on?

You are an attorney. I am not. So as a trained attorney please tell me something....... if a state declares some behavior as a right and the federal constitution does not recognize that behavior as a right - is that right and the exercise of that right limited to the residents of that state and only within that state and is NOT considered their right as an American but as a resident of that state?

I am asking you to get your trained professional opinion based on current law.
 
ernst barkmann said:
your problem haymarket is you all over the place.

you SIGHT constitutional law, then you sight reality, and then always run back to the USSC.

you cannot sight the writings of constitutional law for a position.....and then defend it with reality and USSC.

THE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW and reality are from two different planets.
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Constitutional law exists within reality as defined by the US Supreme Court. They are all part of the same reality.
 
ernst barkmann said:
no i see and understand you fine......you have a tendency, to call people names using roundabouts, and key words...
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I have no idea what you are attempting to allude to. Can you give me example of me using a "roundabout" or these magical "key words"?
 
haymarket said:
My copy of the US Constitution lists several powers of Congress in the area of firearms that you apparently do not have in yours.
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since i am a Madison protege...and since constitutional law is #1 on my hit parade i would like to see your copy, because there are no firearms powers in the constitution or the bill of rights.
 
haymarket said:
Constitutional law exists within reality as defined by the US Supreme Court. They are all part of the same reality.
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sorry it does not because the founders are very clear on things which the USSC says the opposite.
 
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Not every person who owns a gun owns it out of fear...but there are a good number of extremely paranoid people who own guns. It runs the gamut. Hell....I live in Los Angeles and I never lock my doors, even when I leave the house. I've never been the victim of a crime involving my house, then again, I have always owned dogs and figured anyone who would come into my home for property theft probably needs the stuff more than I do.
 
disneydude said:
not every person who owns a gun owns it out of fear...but there are a good number of extremely paranoid people who own guns. It runs the gamut. Hell....i live in los angeles and i never lock my doors, even when i leave the house. I've never been the victim of a crime involving my house, then again, i have always owned dogs and figured anyone who would come into my home for property theft probably needs the stuff more than i do.
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wow!.........
 
haymarket said:
You are really really sensitive to people replying to every point you try to make. Okay - as to your point about frontier kids ----- perhaps they were damaged by open weapons- after all we virtually wiped out a race of people, stole their land with the same gun you say did no real harm. And America still has the high rate of guns and crime so its legacy lives on.
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Not really picky about getting answers....just when I counter an argument, you just try to ignore it and generalize. As if you are making your point....ignoring reality is not making a point.

And you just gave me a very silly reply. Frontier kids? they wiped out entire races of people? Really?

You also ignored the fact that parents and the media are the ones teaching kids to fear guns. Didnt address it or the analogy that proved it is all about perspective and not actual body count....cars.

Also still never managed to provide any examples of people carrying their firearms legally in public and accidentally harming anyone else. (Just further supports my point that your fears are baseless...they are yours and you are entitled to them of course, but it's arrogant to have no real reasons to support those fears and then desire to force restrictions on others.)

You have had your arguments countered and are now bobbing and weaving to avoid answers. I dont care if you agree with em, not in the least. But at least offer valid arguments in return instead of silly garbage to avoid doing so, like frontier kids wiping out races of people.
 
Lursa said:
Not really picky about getting answers....just when I counter an argument, you just try to ignore it and generalize. As if you are making your point....ignoring reality is not making a point.

And you just gave me a very silly reply. Frontier kids? they wiped out entire races of people? Really?

You also ignored the fact that parents and the media are the ones teaching kids to fear guns. Didnt address it or the analogy that proved it is all about perspective and not actual body count....cars.

You have had your arguments countered and are now bobbing and weaving to avoid answers. I dont care if you agree with em, not in the least. But at least offer valid arguments in return instead of silly garbage to avoid doing so, like frontier kids wiping out races of people.
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that was very well put, and i see you have discovered his game.
 
haymarket said:
You need to realize something --- I make no bones about the ability of the people to decide the type of country and the quality of society they want to live in and accept and support the idea of majority rule as long as basic rights are respected. I DO NOT wave the phony flag of LIBERTY or put the bright red lipstick of FREEDOM on myself like so many on the right do and then violate their own so called principles.
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That's nice. I'm a Democrat and pretty liberal.
 
disneydude said:
Not every person who owns a gun owns it out of fear... Hell....I live in Los Angeles
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You live in :laughat: Los Angeles. :2rofll:

I digress but living in a gang invested city that's under foreign occupation is a damn good reason to be armed.

But there is the law why every American of military age is suppose to be in possesion of a military style rifle. 10 U.S. Code § 311 The United States Militia Laws.

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes | LII / Legal Information Institute
 
ernst barkmann said:
since i am a Madison protege...and since constitutional law is #1 on my hit parade i would like to see your copy, because there are no firearms powers in the constitution or the bill of rights.
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Its right there in Article I Section 8 --- but you should be well aware of this since we have danced this number far too many times. You know what it says but you simply have a different interpretation of it.
 
haymarket said:
What is a "gun trembler"? Is that a person with a shaky hand with a firearm in their possession? ;)

By all means please present the law supporting your claims. My copy of the US Constitution lists several powers of Congress in the area of firearms that you apparently do not have in yours. We disagree all the time on this Turtle. All the time. You also disagree with the federal government and with many laws and Court decisions in this area.

So having said that - and meaning no disrespect to you as a person - why should I believe anything you say on this since you have presented your opinion to me many many many times before as law and it was obviously not true then? For example, the Constitiution says the Congress shall have the power to regulate, arm and discipline the militia. And we know from law that all able bodied persons are in the militia. But your position is that Congress can do no such thing.

So again - no disrespect to you as a person - but why should I believe you on this when most of these things come down to an interpretation of the law that is NOT CUT AND DRY and are areas which even attorneys and legal experts disagree on?

You are an attorney. I am not. So as a trained attorney please tell me something....... if a state declares some behavior as a right and the federal constitution does not recognize that behavior as a right - is that right and the exercise of that right limited to the residents of that state and only within that state and is NOT considered their right as an American but as a resident of that state?

I am asking you to get your trained professional opinion based on current law.
Click to expand...

Just because you write stuff on your copy crayon doesn't change the constitution. Sorry to break the news to you.
 
Lursa said:
Not really picky about getting answers....just when I counter an argument, you just try to ignore it and generalize. As if you are making your point....ignoring reality is not making a point.

And you just gave me a very silly reply. Frontier kids? they wiped out entire races of people? Really?

You also ignored the fact that parents and the media are the ones teaching kids to fear guns. Didnt address it or the analogy that proved it is all about perspective and not actual body count....cars.

Also still never managed to provide any examples of people carrying their firearms legally in public and accidentally harming anyone else. (Just further supports my point that your fears are baseless...they are yours and you are entitled to them of course, but it's arrogant to have no real reasons to support those fears and then desire to force restrictions on others.)

You have had your arguments countered and are now bobbing and weaving to avoid answers. I dont care if you agree with em, not in the least. But at least offer valid arguments in return instead of silly garbage to avoid doing so, like frontier kids wiping out races of people.
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So parents and the media are the ones teaching kids to fear guns. And how do they do this exactly? What nefarious methods are they employing? And real life events play no role in their attitude on guns at all?

And why are you so unfamiliar with American history and the role guns played in it? And why are you ignoring my point in bringing up in the first place to counter your claims?

Two can play this game.

btw - I NEVER made a point saying that people who open carry have harmed others. That is not now and has never been my argument. So why in the world would I have to speak to your arguing against a strawman of your own creation? Why should I waste one second of my time providing evidence to a point that I never made in the first place?
 
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cpgrad08 said:
Just because you write stuff on your copy crayon doesn't change the constitution. Sorry to break the news to you.
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Insulting me does not negate a single thing I said. All it does is give evidence that you have no argument against my points.
 
Lursa said:
Not really picky about getting answers....just when I counter an argument, you just try to ignore it and generalize. As if you are making your point....ignoring reality is not making a point.
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By all means - when you counter my argument with anything of actual substance I will be happy to speak to it. Just please make sure it was my argument that you are countering in the first place. Do not throw something like this at me


Also still never managed to provide any examples of people carrying their firearms legally in public and accidentally harming anyone else
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since it was NEVER my argument in the first place.
 
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APACHERAT said:
You live in :laughat: Los Angeles. :2rofll:

I digress but living in a gang invested city that's under foreign occupation is a damn good reason to be armed.
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We've gone through this before Apacherat. Los Angeles is hardly a gang infested city under foreign occupation. Can you be any more of a drama queen?

The reality is....I've never felt threatened at any time here in Los Angeles. I have lived in Mid-Wilshire, West Hollywood, Redondo Beach, The valley and even in the Crenshaw District. I've never felt a need to lock my doors. Even when I go on vacation, I leave my house unlocked. Some people might call it stupid....I just refuse to live my life behind locked doors or behind that Orange curtain.
 
haymarket said:
Its right there in Article I Section 8 --- but you should be well aware of this since we have danced this number far too many times. You know what it says but you simply have a different interpretation of it.
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its right where?..list it for me please give me which clause...not section of the constitution.

are you saying it maybe the power " To borrow Money on the credit of the United States"...LOL

its sad and extremely poor, by making a statement saying "its right there" and producing nothing!
 
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disneydude said:
You gotta understand....I have a pitbull and a german shepherd. Anyone who is willing to come past my dogs would have to be really desperate for the stuff.
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i can understand that , however leaving door unlocked, and giving a crook the easier ability to enter your place, maybe kill your pets, to steal, is not something i would like to have to live with.
 
haymarket said:
Insulting me does not negate a single thing I said. All it does is give evidence that you have no argument against my points.
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what points.....they are all rundown nubs, from being run over by people with facts.
 
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