View Poll Results: Who is more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun, or the one who doesn't?

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  • The person who feels he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    38 79.17%
  • The person who does NOT feel he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    10 20.83%
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Thread: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

  1. #561
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    What does registering cars do? Perhaps you should go ask a detective about whether it helps them to be able to be able to look at a VIN and be able to tell who bought it, who owned it, who sold it. Not only that, but without vehicle registration, if someone steals a car, how can a cop tell if that car's stolen? Unless there's some kind of visual evidence that the guy stole the car, he'll be able to stand up in court and say, "that's my car - prove I stole it!" And in most cases, without other hard evidence that that car was the victim's car, the perp will walk since his guilt won't be able to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Which btw is what they can pretty much do now with guns.
    You are confusing a registration violation with a moving violation. If one is caught breaking a traffic law then it matters not who owns the car, the one operating the car illegally is charged. A notable exception is for camera generated tickets, but rarely is the gun found (or identified) at the scene. The person committing the (violent) gun crime is at fault, not the person that loaned or sold them the gun - just as the person illegally driving the car is at fault, not the registered car owner (or prior seller).
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Guy, it does not matter how many of what kind of firearms you have, nor does it matter how skilled you are at using them - if the other guy gets the drop on you, you're done. And you know it.
    Absolute hogwash.

  3. #563
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There is nothing at all wrong with teaching kids about guns and gun safety if you are going to own guns and have them in the home. I encourage it. When I taught government for 33 years I would make it part of the course on the Second Amendment to make a pitch for kids to take classes offered by the NRA if they wanted to use a gun or there were guns in the home.

    My comment was about people who do not have guns in the home and was regarding others telling those people what they should be teaching their children about guns.
    I had my first rifle @ age 13, but only allowed to handle it with parental supervision, it was hidden from me any other time.

  4. #564
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Based on the parameters you set it is impossible to say. Gun ownership isn't really an indication of being scared or not scared. Neither is not owning one. The only thing owning/not owning a gun can tell you is whether or not a person owns a gun.
    Yeah, as I admitted to others, mine was a poorly-worded question.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #565
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You are confusing a registration violation with a moving violation. If one is caught breaking a traffic law then it matters not who owns the car, the one operating the car illegally is charged. A notable exception is for camera generated tickets, but rarely is the gun found (or identified) at the scene. The person committing the (violent) gun crime is at fault, not the person that loaned or sold them the gun - just as the person illegally driving the car is at fault, not the registered car owner (or prior seller).
    No, you're missing the point. I'm addressing theft of property, not what is done with that property. To use your example, if there's no car registration, then the person who committed a crime with a car is charged with that crime...but he won't be charged with auto theft because law enforcement can't prove that's not his car.

    Likewise, if a person commits a crime with a gun, he'll be charged with that crime...but if there's no gun registration, then (unless he's already on some database saying he can't own a gun), we cannot know if that's his gun or not, and we cannot know if that gun was stolen. Most importantly, if that gun was bought from a gun-runner, we can't track that back to the gun-runners. That's the big benefit of gun registration - the more guns that are registered, the harder it is for gun-runners to get away with what they do.

    And one more thing - if you lend someone your car and they have an accident in your car, you can be held responsible. It sorta sucks...but that's one thing that makes one think twice before lending out cars to one's friend.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
    Absolute hogwash.
    Really? A guy decides to point a gun at you and you didn't expect it - your gun is still in its holster and he's pointing one at you. He's got the drop on you. If he decides to shoot, you're done. There's nothing you can do about it.

    Likewise, if you really, truly wanted to kill someone, do you think the other person would be able to stop you? Probably not. Would you even need a gun to do so? Probably not.

    In other words, your gun is only good if in an emergency, you've got the opportunity to draw before you're shot. Likewise, if you've decided to kill someone, that someone is a dead man walking whether you've got a gun or not.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #567
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    No, you're missing the point. I'm addressing theft of property, not what is done with that property. To use your example, if there's no car registration, then the person who committed a crime with a car is charged with that crime...but he won't be charged with auto theft because law enforcement can't prove that's not his car.

    Likewise, if a person commits a crime with a gun, he'll be charged with that crime...but if there's no gun registration, then (unless he's already on some database saying he can't own a gun), we cannot know if that's his gun or not, and we cannot know if that gun was stolen. Most importantly, if that gun was bought from a gun-runner, we can't track that back to the gun-runners. That's the big benefit of gun registration - the more guns that are registered, the harder it is for gun-runners to get away with what they do.

    And one more thing - if you lend someone your car and they have an accident in your car, you can be held responsible. It sorta sucks...but that's one thing that makes one think twice before lending out cars to one's friend.
    Are you kidding me? The addition of a petty theft charge for increasing the sentence given a violent criminal is not worth the added expense to the general public for justifying national gun registration- why not just add a year to all violent gun crime sentences? You can now report the serial number of a stolen gun free of charge to law enforcement which puts that stolen gun "on the record". As far as gun runners go, can you show that they are any more likely to be prosecuted than those that now lie on form 4473? Of the many "gun runners" found in operation fast & fuzzy how many were ever charged and convicted?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #568
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you kidding me? The addition of a petty theft charge for increasing the sentence given a violent criminal is not worth the added expense to the general public for justifying national gun registration- why not just add a year to all violent gun crime sentences? You can now report the serial number of a stolen gun free of charge to law enforcement which puts that stolen gun "on the record". As far as gun runners go, can you show that they are any more likely to be prosecuted than those that now lie on form 4473? Of the many "gun runners" found in operation fast & fuzzy how many were ever charged and convicted?
    Adding to the sentence of the violent criminal is not the point. What is the point is keeping the guns out of the hands of the violent felon in the first place. This requires going after the people who are selling guns illegally to people who really shouldn't have guns. It doesn't matter if the guns are stolen - the gun-runners will still sell them as long as those guns can't be tracked back to the gun-runners. On the other hand, if all sales - public or private - are tracked with registration numbers, you will see a significant drop in gun-running...because as soon as they see the transactions can be tracked back to them, they'll either get out of the business or they'll take a much greater chance of getting caught. THAT is how to minimize illegal gun sales.

    And would this make a difference? Yes, it would. Here's what NYC has found (from the conservative New York Post):

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives traced 8,793 guns seized in New York in 2011 and found that just 1,595 were bought in the state.

    The rest came from places with less restrictive gun laws — primarily Virginia, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Florida.
    ...
    His criminal-justice coordinator, John Feinblatt, said the ATF’s numbers presented only a partial picture — since 85 percent of the guns used in New York City crimes come from upstate or other states.
    And in the rest of the state, 68 percent of criminally used guns come from elsewhere, he said
    “[In] the rest of the country, the overwhelming majority — 70 percent — come from inside the state, the opposite of our pattern,” Feinblatt said. “The lesson is pretty simple: Gun laws matter. States with strong gun laws tend to receive [illegal] guns; states with weak gun laws tend to export [them].”


    Bear in mind, now, that NYC - almost certainly thanks to it's strict gun laws - is now by most measures the safest major city in America.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #569
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? A guy decides to point a gun at you and you didn't expect it - your gun is still in its holster and he's pointing one at you. He's got the drop on you. If he decides to shoot, you're done. There's nothing you can do about it.

    Likewise, if you really, truly wanted to kill someone, do you think the other person would be able to stop you? Probably not. Would you even need a gun to do so? Probably not.

    In other words, your gun is only good if in an emergency, you've got the opportunity to draw before you're shot. Likewise, if you've decided to kill someone, that someone is a dead man walking whether you've got a gun or not.
    Rubbish.

  10. #570
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Adding to the sentence of the violent criminal is not the point. What is the point is keeping the guns out of the hands of the violent felon in the first place. This requires going after the people who are selling guns illegally to people who really shouldn't have guns. It doesn't matter if the guns are stolen - the gun-runners will still sell them as long as those guns can't be tracked back to the gun-runners. On the other hand, if all sales - public or private - are tracked with registration numbers, you will see a significant drop in gun-running...because as soon as they see the transactions can be tracked back to them, they'll either get out of the business or they'll take a much greater chance of getting caught. THAT is how to minimize illegal gun sales.

    And would this make a difference? Yes, it would. Here's what NYC has found (from the conservative New York Post):

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives traced 8,793 guns seized in New York in 2011 and found that just 1,595 were bought in the state.

    The rest came from places with less restrictive gun laws — primarily Virginia, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Florida.
    ...
    His criminal-justice coordinator, John Feinblatt, said the ATF’s numbers presented only a partial picture — since 85 percent of the guns used in New York City crimes come from upstate or other states.
    And in the rest of the state, 68 percent of criminally used guns come from elsewhere, he said
    “[In] the rest of the country, the overwhelming majority — 70 percent — come from inside the state, the opposite of our pattern,” Feinblatt said. “The lesson is pretty simple: Gun laws matter. States with strong gun laws tend to receive [illegal] guns; states with weak gun laws tend to export [them].”


    Bear in mind, now, that NYC - almost certainly thanks to it's strict gun laws - is now by most measures the safest major city in America.

    We simply have to agree to disagree on this matter; I want more violent felon control via due process and you want more gun control via user fees placed on law abiiding gun owners. Which are there more of - violent felons or guns?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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