View Poll Results: Who is more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun, or the one who doesn't?

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  • The person who feels he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    38 79.17%
  • The person who does NOT feel he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    10 20.83%
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Thread: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

  1. #491
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Let me understand this - you want to create my argument for me and then you want to argue against the very argument you created for me.

    You really do not need my involvement at all in that case as by our choice it will be you against you.
    well that is what FDR said. He said the commerce clause granted the federal government the power to regulate machine guns. I say he made that up in violation of the obvious language of the CC and of the intent of the constitution.

    for you to support his actions, you must support what he did



  2. #492
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well that is what FDR said. He said the commerce clause granted the federal government the power to regulate machine guns. I say he made that up in violation of the obvious language of the CC and of the intent of the constitution.

    for you to support his actions, you must support what he did
    And what did the US Supreme Court say back to President Roosevelt?
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  3. #493
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I've come to realize that if someone really wants to kill me, they'd get the drop on me anyway.
    Is that why you oppose other citizens owning guns? Is it because you are afraid of them?

  4. #494
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And what did the US Supreme Court say back to President Roosevelt?
    yes boss whatever you want whatever you want. Just don't' pack us!

    I want you to claim what he did was proper based on the language of the CC or concede it was not. I will be the first to concede that FDRs power grab is now part of our jurisprudential fabric



  5. #495
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    there is common ground upon which we agree Goshin. And I will not allow those views to frame the argument for all - although they are clearly out there and do exist and must be considered.

    I respect your common sense Goshin - so I would appreciate it if you could give me an answer regarding the Norman Rockwell Freedom of Speech painting I have brought up.

    Freedom of Speech (painting) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Would it not have a chilling effect upon the citizens ability to exercise their right of free speech in a public forum if you add to the painting a few scowling heavily armed men who are obviously not happy with what the speaker is saying instead of the faces we do see in that town hall meeting?

    That is NOT the America I want to live in nor do I think others do. I have seen with my own two eyes the effect forty or fifty armed men had on the Michigan state capital when they came to lobby all dressed in camo and heavily armed. School groups fled and children were denied their educational experience just so a bunch of grown men could play GI Joe and get off on the effect they were causing.

    America is about a careful and considerate balancing of rights. The old saw about your right to swing your arms ends at the face of another comes to mind. You want to keep and bear arms? Fine with me. Get a CCW and bear all you want within the law and keep it concealed.
    The people who are intimidated might be a lot less intimidated if they were armed as well.

    Locally, here in my state, we can carry most places... but polling places and political gatherings are forbidden, and the reason given is the one you espouse.


    Open carry does not mean a license to intimidate.

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  6. #496
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Is that why you oppose other citizens owning guns? Is it because you are afraid of them?
    Who said I oppose other citizens owning guns? I only oppose those having guns who shouldn't have them in the first place.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I only oppose those having guns who shouldn't have them in the first place.
    Why? Because you are afraid of them?

  8. #498
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I remember the days when I was - at least to some extent - what you would today call a 'doomsday prepper'. We were Absolutely Sure that the Soviets were going to launch any day now, so we had our guns and our plans and all the silly assumptions that young men tend to have before real maturity begins to give them a clue.

    And I don't need a gun to survive. I don't need one to hunt - people got by on hunting without guns for many millenia before guns were invented. The more important skill would be knowing what plants can and can't be eaten, and what they can be used for. That, and knowing how to stay hidden if need be...because if someone with a gun sees you first, he's got the drop on you. It doesn't matter if you've got a gun unless he's a lousy shot. On the one hand, having a gun gives you the opportunity to shoot back...but not having a gun makes you more careful...and perhaps more creative since you're forced to think outside the box.
    Many of your assumptions about survival are far off base:
    1) Yes, people did hunt and live without firearms. However, those same people didn't have to worry about other with guns "outgunning" them and taking all of the food available. Guns didn't exist therefore it wasn't a concern. There's a reason every state observes a bow (deer and turkey) season before they open it to black powder rifles then finally gun season.
    2) You act as if "hiding" all day is easy. As someone who's been through SEER, simply hiding from people all day isn't an option when, in addition to that, you must hunt and gather.
    3) When survival is the goal, thinking creatively at that point isn't something I'm looking to do. I'm looking to survive. Period. You're right in that eating plants and knowing which ones can be used for medicine are good things. However, surviving on plants can't be your only option. Meat provides calories at a rate that no plant or fruit can.
    Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  9. #499
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yes boss whatever you want whatever you want. Just don't' pack us!

    I want you to claim what he did was proper based on the language of the CC or concede it was not. I will be the first to concede that FDRs power grab is now part of our jurisprudential fabric
    I read your reply. twice. You failed to answer the question with the reasons for the Court decision. Turtle - every time you throw out this court packing theory it has been strongly refuted as having no basis in fact and that is from the Chief Justice himself. Do you need to see his own words yet again?
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The people who are intimidated might be a lot less intimidated if they were armed as well.

    Locally, here in my state, we can carry most places... but polling places and political gatherings are forbidden, and the reason given is the one you espouse.


    Open carry does not mean a license to intimidate.
    Sadly all those who advocate open carry do not agree with you and as long as that motivation persists, it is a compelling reason to not allow it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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