View Poll Results: Who is more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun, or the one who doesn't?

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  • The person who feels he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    38 79.17%
  • The person who does NOT feel he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    10 20.83%
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Thread: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

  1. #331
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    the fault of those who are engaged in intentional intimidation.
    If I open carried around my town, I would be intentionally intimidating people? That would be my reason for openly carrying my firearm?

    Never got an answer to this either:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I would not want to be a person intimidated by someone carrying a gun.

    In many states, including my own, anyone over 21 (that can legally own a gun) can carry it openly. Dont see it too often. It doesnt serve a purpose to do so, so generally people dont.

    (See, this is what I mean by baseless and unfounded concerns. Not one person has posted an incident where a law abiding citizen has used their gun (legally) or had an accident in public and harmed anyone else. Again...baseless to fear if you cant even find examples. Are there some? Maybe...havent seen them so probably not many)

    It's funny you feel safer just because 'you cant see the guns.'

    Here's a question: If it's legal to open carry in so many states....why dont we commonly see what you described in our fast food establishments, etc?
    Last edited by Lursa; 05-13-14 at 12:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #332
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Really? Ever read the famous FBI gun fight file?

    There are definitely examples of where more rounds would likely have helped.

    But all I have to see is report after report of cops missing every shot in gun fight (and the attackers) to know that I should have every advantage in a gun fight if I ever need it and no one else's imagined fears should prevent it.

    Two easily imaginable scenarios that apply to my lifestyle.

    --Multiple home invaders....how much good is a shotgun going to do me? Home invasions typically involved at least 2-3 attackers. I have 18 rounds in my 9mm at home.

    --I am confronted in a isolated parking garage/lot by multiple attackers. Also very common. 18 shots seems reasonable to me if there are 3 of them and all of us are moving and attempting to seek cover.

    I train to shoot and move but I am not going to kid myself and think I'm going to *get instantly disabling shots into multiple attackers.* I know the realities that a few shots my kill *eventually* but not STOP someone from continuing to shoot at me.

    If you disagree I'll completely disbelieve you were ever in the military. Not that you care, but your credibility would go out the window.

    The guns and magazines are out there.....take them away from the rest of us....they only go up in value for the criminals and the losers who spend their last weeks or months planning to shoot strangers in malls or schools. The equipment doesnt go away, nor the motivation.

    So the rest of us deserve the ability to protect ourselves.
    and if you (and I suspect you do-this is for those who continually prove they don't understand the issue) know anything about gun fights you will know that pistol rounds-even with a good center of mass hit on an attacker who is not wearing body armor (which has become more common) is less than 60% meaning if you are confronted with 2 attackers and your accuracy is 75% you are still going to need several rounds to guarantee both attackers stop their attacks. And if you are behind cover trading rounds with competent criminals, you aren't going to have an entire body to shoot at.

    Only someone who has

    1) never been in a gun fight

    2) never studied civilian shooting cases

    3) or is dishonest about his or her motives

    could claim that 7 is a sufficient number of rounds

    now there might be reasons that you carry less in your gun

    I often carry a five shot revolver and my wife carries one of those little SIG 380s because they are convenient and easy to hide. but at home we have 17 shot Glocks (a 19 with a G17 Mag) 10 shot shotguns and 30 round M4 carbines because concealment is not a requirement.

    there is never a downside to having more ammo than you needed to solve a problem

    there is often a terminal downside to not having enough



  3. #333
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It's also not necessarily about wanting to protect yourself either. My sister and her husband are into collecting guns and competitive shooting and that kind of thing. I don't have any interest in it but they do. Zero fear involved. It's the people who feel the need to put a gun under their pillow because they're afraid someone is going to break in that we need to worry about.
    I used to sleep sort of like that (it was by my mattress within arms reach) because I lived in the sort of neighborhood where A) that sort of thing happened and B) we were the only white kids who obviously weren't poor, making us seemingly easy targets.

    Poll misses a point - preparedness is wise. Asking if you have a gun because you are afraid and if therefore people who don't have guns are less fearful is like asking if having a defense department means you are afraid, and if therefore people who are defenseless (say, for example, civilians caught in the middle of Syria's civil war) are less fearful.

    How about this: who is less afraid? A woman watching a violent man break down her door who is praying that it takes him longer than the half hour or so that it will take the police to get there? Or a woman watching a violent man break down her door who is armed with a shotgun in case the cops don't make it.
    Last edited by cpwill; 05-13-14 at 12:35 AM.

  4. #334
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There is no constitutional right to openly carry and intimidate your fellow Americans. I fully realize that your side knows they are a minority and knows they cannot win through sheer majority numbers so this is the strategy they have adopted. It is disgusting. It is unAmerican. And it is no better than terrorism.
    Even more appropriate here. You dont seem to be able to grasp any view outside your own OR provide any reasons why your view is even reasonable. ALso silly in light of the fact that you do know a great number of people are carrying their firearms concealed and that does not intimidate you. I dont really get that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I would not want to be a person intimidated by someone carrying a gun.

    In many states, including my own, anyone over 21 (that can legally own a gun) can carry it openly. Dont see it too often. It doesnt serve a purpose to do so, so generally people dont.

    (See, this is what I mean by baseless and unfounded concerns. Not one person has posted an incident where a law abiding citizen has used their gun (legally) or had an accident in public and harmed anyone else. Again...baseless to fear if you cant even find examples. Are there some? Maybe...havent seen them so probably not many)

    It's funny you feel safer just because 'you cant see the guns.'

    Here's a question: If it's legal to open carry in so many states....why dont we commonly see what you described in our fast food establishments, etc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #335
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    but that assumes that people bearing guns are trying to intimidate those who are cowardly and afraid of armed citizens.

    I reject your suggestion that merely bearing arms is designed to intimidate honest people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I would not want to be a person intimidated by someone carrying a gun.

    In many states, including my own, anyone over 21 (that can legally own a gun) can carry it openly. Dont see it too often. It doesnt serve a purpose to do so, so generally people dont.

    (See, this is what I mean by baseless and unfounded concerns. Not one person has posted an incident where a law abiding citizen has used their gun (legally) or had an accident in public and harmed anyone else. Again...baseless to fear if you cant even find examples. Are there some? Maybe...havent seen them so probably not many)

    It's funny you feel safer just because 'you cant see the guns.'

    Here's a question: If it's legal to open carry in so many states....why dont we commonly see what you described in our fast food establishments, etc?

    My impression is that he believes that anyone who carries a gun...openly, and perhaps concealed...is doing so mostly out of ego, to prove something (to themselves or others). Again...an extremely limited view....one that supports his discomfort and not much else. I've seen no support anyway.
    Last edited by Lursa; 05-13-14 at 12:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #336
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    My i


    My impression is that he believes that anyone who carries a gun...openly, and perhaps concealed...is doing so mostly out of ego, to prove something (to themselves or others). Again...an extremely limited view....one that supports his discomfort and not much else. I've seen no support anyway.

    Yeah, I've tried to address this misperception among many of those on the anti side... but it seems rather pointless most of the time. They simply don't wish to believe that we're acting from rational motivations, for some reason.

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  7. #337
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    please turn in your firearms please...they are making me very afraid!

  8. #338
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and if you (and I suspect you do-this is for those who continually prove they don't understand the issue) know anything about gun fights you will know that pistol rounds-even with a good center of mass hit on an attacker who is not wearing body armor (which has become more common) is less than 60% meaning if you are confronted with 2 attackers and your accuracy is 75% you are still going to need several rounds to guarantee both attackers stop their attacks. And if you are behind cover trading rounds with competent criminals, you aren't going to have an entire body to shoot at.

    Only someone who has

    1) never been in a gun fight

    2) never studied civilian shooting cases

    3) or is dishonest about his or her motives

    could claim that 7 is a sufficient number of rounds

    now there might be reasons that you carry less in your gun

    I often carry a five shot revolver and my wife carries one of those little SIG 380s because they are convenient and easy to hide. but at home we have 17 shot Glocks (a 19 with a G17 Mag) 10 shot shotguns and 30 round M4 carbines because concealment is not a requirement.

    there is never a downside to having more ammo than you needed to solve a problem

    there is often a terminal downside to not having enough
    I had a gunny once who had been pretty much everywhere and done pretty much every thing. From being one of the guys on the pilot rescue in Bosnia to standing up FAST to combat tour after combat tour after combat tour. He ran pretty slick (didn't carry much gear) on him except for this: he had a c-mag. That stood out, and I asked him one time about the discrepancy. "Son", he replied "let me tell you something." "Anyone worth shooting at, is worth shooting many times."

    That always stuck with me.

  9. #339
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're likely to miss no matter how many rounds you have. It happens with adrenaline often. But, I haven't seen much fir stand toe to tie gun fights. These things are usually quick, and just meeting resistance is enough to win the day. This is not a war zone.

    But, if you have that FBI file, link it. I'll look it over.

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  10. #340
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I used to sleep sort of like that (it was by my mattress within arms reach) because I lived in the sort of neighborhood where A) that sort of thing happened and B) we were the only white kids who obviously weren't poor, making us seemingly easy targets.
    If you weren't poor, why the hell did you live in that neighborhood? Why not move somewhere safer?

    Poll misses a point - preparedness is wise. Asking if you have a gun because you are afraid and if therefore people who don't have guns are less fearful is like asking if having a defense department means you are afraid, and if therefore people who are defenseless (say, for example, civilians caught in the middle of Syria's civil war) are less fearful.
    There's nothing wrong with being prepared but it's much better to live somewhere that you don't have to be prepared for imminent violence. If chronic violence isn't a problem, you don't need to have a gun close at hand, do you?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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