View Poll Results: Who is more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun, or the one who doesn't?

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  • The person who feels he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    38 79.17%
  • The person who does NOT feel he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    10 20.83%
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Thread: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

  1. #271
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I suppose people freely bearing arms could intimidate someone who is afraid of guns. Just like a guy walking around a reptile show with a python around his shoulders might intimidate someone who has an abnormal fear of snakes. The problem is not with the gun owner or the snake handler but of the coward who is fearful
    Agreed. The hoplophobe can't take away his fellow Americans' right to bear arms simply because it makes him afraid.

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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Agreed. The hoplophobe can't take away his fellow Americans' right to bear arms simply because it makes him afraid.
    a top firearms trainer (talking about an incompetent chief of police who was a big gun banner) noted that the anti gun chief of police had to get a waiver because he couldn't pass firearms qualifications. The chief was a gun banner because he assumed other citizens were as incompetent with guns as he was. Projection of incompetence is a big deal with gun banners.



  3. #273
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    more passive aggressive nonsense from a gun banner. where you fail is that whether restrictions are reasonable or not turns on two factors

    a) whose definition of reasonable

    b) and the thing the gun haters always ignore-does the government unit have the necessary authority to impose "reasonable restrictions"

    an honest answer as to the federal government is NO.
    You have the most difficult time with a middle ground position. You're the one being passive aggressive by failing to address what is actually argued.

    a) I could define reasonable for you. But I think we both know that reasonable is based on what allows for the greatest safety with the least amount infringement.

    b) Not ignored. The courts have consistently allowed for some restrictions, and have push the government back when they over step. This seems "reasonable."

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #274
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    I have often wondered how the federal government can create any legislation concerning firearms of the people ...since they are forbidden by the constitution from doing so.

  5. #275
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The question's easy - there's many people out there who feel that they need a gun (or guns), usually for self-defense, but sometimes because they believe the government just might come knocking to confiscate their guns.

    On the other hand, there's people out there (like myself) who simply don't want a gun, who doesn't have a need for one.

    So who, really, is the one who's more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun for self-defense, or the one who doesn't feel he needs a gun for self-defense?
    I might have accidently hit the wrong vote, anyway I think people that feel the need to have a gun for personal protection are more afraid of intrusion. I completely respect and believe in ones obligation to protect ones own family and property, but I have never felt the need to be armed until my fiance who is definitely fearful of intrusion prompted me to consider it for her sake.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  6. #276
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In all fairness Goshin, I suspect most people truly believe that their own personal concerns are indeed "reasonable and legitimate" and those of their enemies are not so.

    So saying what you said really only justifies ones own view and brings comfort to their allies.


    How much of anyone's views are subjective, Haymarket? Quite a lot.

    Ask a man who just got a promotion and a raise how the economy is doing, you're a lot more likely to get a positive answer than from the guy who just lost his job and can't find anything decent to replace it with... no?

    How high of a priority does Joe Average put on SSM? Not so much. How high a priority does George Takei put on it? He is an activist in the push for it and clearly considers it one of the top priorities in the nation.


    Similarly, you're going to get different views on what is legitimate and reasonable from different people, regarding guns or gun control, depending on their background, life experiences and etc.... whether we're talking about "reasonable restrictions" or "reasonable and legitimate concerns", vice-versa.

    Someone from a restrictive state who mainly thinks of guns as things the police and criminals carry will have a different perspective than someone who grew up where guns are common. Someone whose only experience with guns was being victimized by an armed crook will see things differently than someone who STOPPED a criminal by showing or using a gun.

    Obviously.




    Objectively? while some people like to argue about it, there is little question that a lot of defensive gun use goes on... probably in the 100,000s per year, just based on government studies and lower-end estimates, vastly outnumbering murders, suicides and accidents combined.


    But subjective opinions still tend to rule... and why not? A person who is unfamiliar with guns and who has never been a crime victim and thinks he lives in a safe neighborhood may see no need for armed citizens... and if he wishes to go unarmed I wish him well and will not trouble him over it.

    Similarly, someone very familiar with firearms, who HAS been a crime victim or had someone close to them victimized by a criminal, or has stopped a criminal by being armed, is going to see things in a different light. If you try to tell him he doesn't need to carry a gun, he is going to look at you like you just told him he doesn't need a SEAT BELT... because from his experience the former is as SELF-EVIDENT to him as the latter is to most people who have been in a traffic accident.

    Which is correct? Well some philosophers and quantum physicists would argue both are correct.


    Perhaps both are making the best decision they can based on THEIR experiences and world view for their OWN lives. Perhaps we should just let them do so... something called Liberty, which is held in high regard in the US, is that until you harm someone else or infringe on their rights you do mostly what you please, no?

    And given that available statistics do NOT indicate that CCWers are statistically any significant threat to Joe Citizen (indeed, one could argue that you're more likely to be wrongfully shot by the police!), there is no reason to force them to give up their self-determination for the sake of those made uncomfortable by their liberty.


    When you belittle people who carry due to concerns about crime and safety that THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCE tells them is valid and legitimate, by saying they are fearful and making decisions based on irrational emotion, you're saying that YOUR worldview is superior and correct and theirs is invalid and wrong... something that is usually frowned on in our society when the topic is something other than guns.


    At least allow the other side the benefit of assuming their sincerity about their motives... its only polite.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  7. #277
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Boo spent hours saying that idiotic magazine restrictions were "reasonable" based on his claim that the chances of a citizen needing more than 7 rounds is small. He spent hundreds of posts trying to defend that idiocy by claiming that while you might need more than 7 rounds, it is very rare. He lost the argument when he conceded that he could not argue that there was any HARM in a citizen having more rounds. In other words, argument for the sake of argument rather than a reasonable claim of a trade off.
    He chose not to engage me on the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #278
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So lets look at what a reasonable person may conclude based on pure data then. Given that guns are the number one weapon in murders by a far far margin, is it reasonable that a rational person may fear a gun and the results of it in their or their families lives?


    See my post above.

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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  9. #279
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You have the most difficult time with a middle ground position. You're the one being passive aggressive by failing to address what is actually argued.

    a) I could define reasonable for you. But I think we both know that reasonable is based on what allows for the greatest safety with the least amount infringement.

    b) Not ignored. The courts have consistently allowed for some restrictions, and have push the government back when they over step. This seems "reasonable."
    the issue is-was the federal government PROPERLY delegated the power to regulate such things and if so, to what extent before such regulation violates the 2A

    the true answer is no-the federal government was not given such power. rather FDR and his minions though it should have been and rather than doing the honest thing, they just blatantly ignored the constitution and made the power up

    and you have been in favor of clearly unreasonable restrictions like idiotic magazine bans. there is no objective evidence that at some point a certain number of rounds become "unusually dangerous" or that banning a number above a set figure will increase public safety

    so your view of what is reasonable is rejected.



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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    He chose not to engage me on the issue.
    that happens a fair amount my dear



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