View Poll Results: Who is more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun, or the one who doesn't?

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  • The person who feels he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    38 79.17%
  • The person who does NOT feel he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    10 20.83%
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Thread: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

  1. #251
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) you are making the incrementalist argument

    2) its absolutely true. it has been well documented that the dems started pushing for gun control after the Nixon attacks on Dems for being soft on crime and the fact that the public wanted the party in power to do SOMETHING about black street crime and the assassinations of the Kennedys.

    http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/vi...t=srhonorsprog

    Cramer: Racist Roots of Gun Control (1995)

    The Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed not to control guns to but control blacks, and inasmuch as a majority of Congress did not want to do the former but were ashamed to show that their goal was the latter, the result was that they did neither. Indeed, this law, the first gun-control law passed by Congress in thirty years, was one of the grand jokes of our time.(56)
    1) No. You're trying to set up all or nothing, anything short of nothing is increments. I don't buy that. As we've had from the beginning, some restrictions are reasonable. And that's all it is. Nothing more.

    2) I have no reason to accept those sources as the gospel. However, the fact remains today no one other than outliers are thinking that way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #252
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Have you ever held or shot a firearm? Hand gun? Semi-auto, revolver? How about a rifle? A shotgun?

    Do you know how different all of those are? And they are different in a million ways for very specific reasons. When you choose a tool for a job...dont you want the ability to choose what is right for the job? Most comfortable, designed best, most reliable, longest battery life, highest torque, yada yada yada?

    I mean, why arent we all driving exactly the same cars? Riding the exact same bikes? Wearing the same shoes? Not *just* for vanity or looks.

    If someone chooses to own a firearm(s) they choose them for reasons. It's not up to you to tell someone else what best serves their purposes.
    You went well off topic. I hope you feel better.

    Even though you didn't respond to me at all, I was in the military and have fired an m16 and a .45. I've also hunted deer early in my adulthood. So, I've fired a hunting rifle. So, I'm not a complete novice.

    Now, if your through just randomly leaping in, how about addressing something I said to you. TD is capable of holding up his own end.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #253
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So lets look at what a reasonable person may conclude based on pure data then. Given that guns are the number one weapon in murders by a far far margin, is it reasonable that a rational person may fear a gun and the results of it in their or their families lives?
    Sure....murders are committed by criminals. Very few are 'spree' or active shooting situations.

    Regulating and restricting will not stop that at all. It may not even slow it. and it certainly places ALL the law-abiding people at greater risk, esp those that would carry a firearm for protection or keep them to protect their family at home.

    So a reasonable person would not be afraid of guns, but of criminal activity and would take reasonable precautions to protect themselves. For some people, that is a firearm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #254
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You went well off topic. I hope you feel better.

    Even though you didn't respond to me at all, I was in the military and have fired an m16 and a .45. I've also hunted deer early in my adulthood. So, I've fired a hunting rifle. So, I'm not a complete novice.

    Now, if your through just randomly leaping in, how about addressing something I said to you. TD is capable of holding up his own end.
    Not at all off topic but I wanted an answer so that I could have an idea of your familiarity with firearms before explaining. Makes a difference in level of detail.


    I dont remember the exact quote however I can give plenty of acceptable, rational reasons why the high cap magazines should not be regulated, or ammo, or some of the other things mentioned whenever the argument comes up, 'well they dont need all that stuff. They still can have a gun.'
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #255
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Not at all off topic but I wanted an answer so that I could have an idea of your familiarity with firearms.


    I dont remember the exact quote however I can give plenty of acceptable, rational reasons why the high cap magazines should not be regulated, or ammo, or some of the other things mentioned whenever the argument comes up, 'well they dont need all that stuff. They still can have a gun.'
    I can't really think of anything compelling.

    But what we were originally dealing with was why care alarms weren't treated the same as weapons, the same outrage. Answer: because they aren't the same. And that we will never ban guns, but just as we've had, there will continue to regulations. The question will always be where is the line.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #256
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I can't really think of anything compelling.

    But what we were originally dealing with was why care alarms weren't treated the same as weapons, the same outrage. Answer: because they aren't the same. And that we will never ban guns, but just as we've had, there will continue to regulations. The question will always be where is the line.
    My questions about your firearm knowlege was not the response to that.

    And I believe I did answer it in another post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #257
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    My questions about your firearm knowlege was not the response to that.

    And I believe I did answer it in another post.
    And I answered you.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #258
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Sure....murders are committed by criminals. Very few are 'spree' or active shooting situations.

    Regulating and restricting will not stop that at all. It may not even slow it. and it certainly places ALL the law-abiding people at greater risk, esp those that would carry a firearm for protection or keep them to protect their family at home.

    So a reasonable person would not be afraid of guns, but of criminal activity and would take reasonable precautions to protect themselves. For some people, that is a firearm.
    We differ on the idea that reasonable persons should feel a certain way about gun ownership and use. We have 315 million people in this nation and each one of them has their own story, their own experiences, has walked their own path and how they react to things, the fears and concerns they have - are theirs and nobody with any sense of compassion or understanding for the differences in their fellow humans has a right to say that they should not have the fears they do have or that they are " cowards" or have "inadaquecies" if they chose not to have a gun.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #259
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We differ on the idea that reasonable persons should feel a certain way about gun ownership and use. We have 315 million people in this nation and each one of them has their own story, their own experiences, has walked their own path and how they react to things, the fears and concerns they have - are theirs and nobody with any sense of decency has a right to say that they should not have the fears they do have or that they are " cowards" or have "inadaquecies" if they chose not to have a gun.
    Well I'm pretty sure I never even implied such about people who choose not to own or carry guns, altho others do and have.

    But it works exactly in reverse...those people are welcome to their feelings however they have no right, IMO, without actual proof or at least a predominance of supporting evidence...that their feelings should influence the rights of others to do what makes *them* most comfortable regarding firearms. Fear criminals with guns? Sure why not?

    Fear law-abiding citizens with guns? Let's examine that in context with everything else you do every day and the 'actual' dangers you are in and the "actual" incidents where the public has been harmed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #260
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Well I'm pretty sure I never even implied such about people who choose not to own or carry guns, altho others do and have.

    But it works exactly in reverse...those people are welcome to their feelings however they have no right, IMO, without actual proof or at least a predominance of supporting evidence...that their feelings should influence the rights of others to do what makes *them* most comfortable regarding firearms. Fear criminals with guns? Sure why not?

    Fear law-abiding citizens with guns? Let's examine that in context with everything else you do every day and the 'actual' dangers you are in and the "actual" incidents where the public has been harmed.
    Let us suppose for a minute that a middle class American couple with two kids aged 4 and 7 are having dinner at some local restaurant ---- Burger King.... Taco Bell... the local coney island ---- something along those lines. And in walks a man in camo armed with pistols in holsters on his hip and some sort of long gun strapped to his back that appears to look far more like a military machine gun than a hunting rifle. He is not police nor is he military.

    Are you going to claim that the family should not be concerned about this and their first emotion is not one of fright?
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-12-14 at 07:50 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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