View Poll Results: Who is more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun, or the one who doesn't?

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  • The person who feels he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    38 79.17%
  • The person who does NOT feel he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    10 20.83%
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Thread: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

  1. #101
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    From your own cited link:



    If there are 15,000 suicides per year and around 300,000 DGU's a year, DGU's outnumber suicides by 20 to 1.

    Accidents hardly bear talking about, as they don't even amount to a fraction of that and have been trending downward for 40 years.

    I'd be quick to say that someone who IS suicidal or prone to it probably should not own a gun. Those not so inclined however appear to be more likely to use a firearm in self-defense by a vast margin, than the canard of "oh you'll just shoot yourself" so over-hyped by the anti's.
    The first part of that sentence also reads "social scientists have suggested that perhaps" and you didn't quote the sentence before that one which says maybe 100,000 is a more accurate number. So we got a range in the article of 2 million DGUs a year to just 100,00 a year, which to me is too big a gap to be statistically relevant. Unfortunately crime statistics being what they are , and the various states using different metrics and definitions it seems that the only decent statistical information we can get about how guns are used against other people is when someone dies in the encounter.

  2. #102
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    In your rural community, depending on where you reside, a firearm might be a necessity....e.g. black bear, coyote, mountain lion, rattlesnake, etc..



    Correct. I live out in the sticks, and I've needed a firearm to deal with an animal-related issue far more often than a people-related issue, at home at least.


    Prime example:
    When my son was 9 he was attacked by a rabid fox. I booted it off of him and it took off running. I didn't want it to possibly come back or possibly attack a neighbor, so I drew my CCW pistol and shot it before it got away.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  3. #103
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    My family has never, and is extremely unlikely to be in a situation where they are al being murdered. If I had a gun, I might have done it.
    So when they break into your house, rape your wife, and beat up on your kids with cricket bats or wrenches or such....you'll take them on alone with your....fireplace andiron?

    I hear that is just the kind of common crime there...lots of assault and battery during robbery, mugging, etc. But it's ok, since the victims usually survive the beatings?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #104
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    The first part of that sentence also reads "social scientists have suggested that perhaps" and you didn't quote the sentence before that one which says maybe 100,000 is a more accurate number. So we got a range in the article of 2 million DGUs a year to just 100,00 a year, which to me is too big a gap to be statistically relevant. Unfortunately crime statistics being what they are , and the various states using different metrics and definitions it seems that the only decent statistical information we can get about how guns are used against other people is when someone dies in the encounter.

    Yeah that is what people tend to say when they want to ignore DGUs. They question surveys, shrug at statistics, say "isolated incidents" at news stories, and ignore anecdotes, and claim no one knows.

    Well there's plenty of evidence that it damn sure happens a lot more often than suicides, or accidents, and probably far more often than NCVS which isn't actually about DGUs.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  5. #105
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Correct. I live out in the sticks, and I've needed a firearm to deal with an animal-related issue far more often than a people-related issue, at home at least.


    Prime example:
    When my son was 9 he was attacked by a rabid fox. I booted it off of him and it took off running. I didn't want it to possibly come back or possibly attack a neighbor, so I drew my CCW pistol and shot it before it got away.
    I do know out west, specifically where I lived in New Mexico previous to here, coyotes are notorious for engaging pet dogs, one will come up and befriend the family dog, they'll run off into the desert, where a few others await for an easy meal. Some smaller dogs, like poodles and chihuahuas are consumed by rattlesnakes right at their front doorstep.

  6. #106
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    In all my time in law enforcement.... I never responded to a "priority 1" breaking or entering (when home is occupied) call that turned out to be a squirrel making a noise jumping onto the room called in by a person who had a gun.

    Guns allow people to be their own first responders to simple things like loud banging noises that you suspect are someone trying to break in, etc.

    People without guns tend to call the police over trivial matters before having the courage to investigate themselves. Thus making people without guns more fearful... IMO.

  7. #107
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Oh I live in the United States like lots of other people, its a fairly rural place with not a lot of crime which is why I can confidently walk down the street without worried about being raped or murdered. For most people having a gun doesn't help them in life in the least, at least statistically the amount of positive uses of firearms by citizens far outweighs the negative uses. I know there's some source out there which claims a million people every year use their gun for self defense in the US, but those statistics are always open to a lot of error.

    How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense? - Businessweek

    Point being what really guns under my skin about gun ownership isn't that a lot people own or carry guns is that they do so in a state of ignorance, they don't understand the risks to themselves that guns can create, or the risk to others if they improperly carry or improperly secure at home. I think gun advertisers are completely insane in how they advertise, which does so in a way that encourages and promotes unrealistic and unsafe ideas on how to own a weapon or what owning a weapon is like. I don't think enough people understand the responsibility that comes with owning a weapon, I don't think enough people take the time to think about how carrying a weapon could change their approach to problems or dangerous situations. Something called "weapon effect" where the fact that carrying something so powerful changes the way you think
    .

    How often does your house burn down? How often do kids get kidnapped by strangers?

    Most reasonable people practice fire drills and have plans for their family for a fire in the home. Most also teach their kids 'stranger danger' and what to do if approached by a stranger.

    A firearm is an option. That's all. It's not necessarily for everyone and very very few people are recommending that those not interested go out and get them. I lived perfectly happily and safely for 40some yrs without one. I've lived several yrs since perfectly happy and safely with one. I give lie to the saying that 'Democrats/liberals only get guns after something bad happens.'

    However rare, things can happen to ANYONE ANYTIME. Here's a sad story from last yr where any reasonably competent gun carrier could have saved himself and companion. Man and girlfriend were walking on a Seattle street and random mentally ill man started stabbing HER. He was unarmed but he tried to fight off the random man. He was stabbed to death. (The woman survived).

    The REAL fact of this whole thing is that, like cell phones, millions of people just carry every day and dont think much of it.... it's a habit, and they never use it. (Ok the last part is different than cell phones, which most people do use. ) And there is not blood in the streets.

    I have yet to read of any stories where a person carrying in public used that gun in self-defense or in defense of others and harmed anyone else. And if it's not happening....why are people so fearful? Yes, occasionally an asshole gets pissed off and shoots someone in an argument....but how much more is that happening than road rage? Or men (yup, men) doing the same thing with a different weapon? It's still pretty rare. We live in a free country...there are assholes....not much we can do about it, except be ACTIVELY personally responsible for ourselves.

    And thank you for your service. Please note my sig in blue, as it's somewhat relevant to my post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #108
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yeah that is what people tend to say when they want to ignore DGUs. They question surveys, shrug at statistics, say "isolated incidents" at news stories, and ignore anecdotes, and claim no one knows.

    Well there's plenty of evidence that it damn sure happens a lot more often than suicides, or accidents, and probably far more often than NCVS which isn't actually about DGUs.
    What is a DGU?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #109
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post

    I'll give another example of what I mean real quick, I made a post a while back where I said if you own a gun and look at the top round in your magazine that YOU are the person most likely of all the people in the world for that round to end up in if it were to find its way into a person. There's self-injury of course but I was referring to suicide, gun owners are about 3 times more likely to kill themselves with their gun than anyone else (legally or not). Why is that? Well suicide is already a bigger problem than homicide but more specifically it has to do with the ease of the act, suicidal people typically seek out the most painless method because even to a suicidal person the final moments are spent in extreme psychological pain, part of your brain is always rebelling against the act and its easier/less painful if you can do something which overcomes that part of the brain in just a second. So the solution is simple, if you're suicidal find somewhere else to place your guns, if your friend may be suicidal talk to him about his guns and of course about his thoughts. Thats it, that's all I'm saying, no bans, no confiscation, no mark on your record so if you go to buy another gun sometime in the future you're flagged for having been suicidal at one point and can't make the purchase.

    You'd be amazed, well maybe you won't, how much people will rebel against discussing simple things like that
    .
    I realize this is callous but I dont care about people who commit suicide. Altho I have a different view on the vets coming back from the ME since we are the ones that created their pain. For the most part tho, that is their problem and a private one. It causes a great deal of pain to others, and for most IMO is a cowardly selfish thing to do (again, not applying this to our vets).

    But by no means should that EVER be used as an excuse to restrict our gun rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #110
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    Re: Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What is a DGU?


    Short for "Defensive Gun Use". Means any time a citizen stops a probable crime through use of a firearm... whether by killing, wounding, shooting and missing, or just displaying the firearm and scaring off the perp. The latter is believed to probably cover as many as 98% of DGUs.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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