• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are Affirmative Action programs racist?[W:110]

Are Affirmative Action programs racist?

  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .
Gimmesometruth said:
Again, is that your proof that governments in the US did not allow slavery? If you have laws allowing slavery, you have acts of government allowing it.

Stop with the semantic games, many govts in the US had acts specifically allowing slavery.

Good grief!
Click to expand...

Good grief indeed. Reading comprehension issues? Point to the post where I said that the US government didn't allow slavery. I'll wait for you to link it.
 
AlbqOwl said:
1.)I pick C too
2.) but I do not believe AA and EEO do that for anybody.
3.)Again, I know too many people who have EARNED their credentials and MERITED their status in life, but who are too often frustrated knowing their colleagues believe they are the product and beneficiary of AA.
4.) I know too many people who want to be respected for what they know, what they can do, what they have accomplished instead of being regarded as part of some quota.
Click to expand...

1.) good thats the right pick
2.) you are free to believe as you wish but that is factually what they do, this wont change. THey have a definition and rules and laws and rights to guide it all.
3.) Their beliefs are meaningless and so is the believes of thier uneducated colleagues to reality and facts. ANd the BEST fact us is we all benefit form AA/EEO no matter the race. And id said individual was given or denied something based on race that factually WAS NOT AA/EEO.

THese are the facts people have to educated themselves with and if they cant thier opinion dont matter anyway. People are free to THINK whatever they want if its not true why does it matter? it doesnt

4.) quotas are ILLEGAL and definitely not part of AA/EEO.

the problem with those people or the idiotic thoughts of thier colleagues that they worry about is that none of them understand what AA/EEO is.

If a minority believes they got somewhere because of a quota then they have to realize that that was factually not AA/EEO no matter what people call it and that illegal activity needs reported.
If thier non minority colleagues think they got there because of a quota then they have to realize that that was factually not AA/EEO no matter what people call it and that illegal activity needs reported.
I a minority is worried that thier colleagues think they got thier because of a quota it shouldnt matter one bit what dumb people think and they should simply do thier job proving others wrong.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Oh, they can....eventually.....once racism is squashed and is not a part of our SOCIETY.How in hell do you know this?

Edit:

And why do you think that your personal anecdotes have any validity?
Click to expand...

How do I know they didn't need AA to succeed? Because they were smart and worked hard.

Wait, so now you're claiming that no black people are successful on their own merits, but instead are there because of AA? Do Barack & Michelle Obama know this? Interesting, I always thought it was the consensus that he did NOT get into Harvard, Occidental & Columbia because of AA. It appears that you're saying otherwise.

Interesting. Now we have Libs saying the Obamas were products of Affirmative Action.
 
LowDown said:
1.)What could be more racist than going through life convinced that people of your own race are deserving of special privilege because the majority race is made up of evil oppressors? That the majority race has better jobs, better opportunities, more money, etc. only because they are evil, because they cheat you and other minorities. It's a belief in the inherent moral inferiority of a race of human beings and the moral superiority of your own race -- the textbook definition of "racism".
Click to expand...

good thing AA/EEO factually has nothing to do with any of that but thanks for that meaningless non-related rant
 
Muhammed said:
Howso? Prove it. I think you are lying.

Getting into college can make a huge difference in people's lives.

Granted, I probably had a huge advantage over my peers by not going to college and going straight into a career because I didn't need college. I was already smarter than the vast majority of college professors anyways. But getting into the right college can mean a lot to the average Joe.
Click to expand...
I'd bring up the Dunning Kruger effect, but I'm sure you're already thoroughly familiar with it...perhaps you even wrote it.
 
MildSteel said:
No the war has not been won because there is still quite a bit a racism in the United States, AND there are people still alive that were directly psychologically and economically harmed by the effects of the systemic racism that existed.
Click to expand...

Are you posting about racism, or Affirmative Action?

Barack Obama is living proof that AA is no longer needed, unless he's only where he is because of AA.

If he isn't, then you may want to study how he & his wife got to be the successes that they are so you can achieve what they have.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Beautifully stated.

So I ask my liberal, pro-affirmative action friends. What is more productive, more compassionate, less racist?

A. To treat a large group of Americans as inferior citizens who are just not capable of making it without government mandates and assistance, i.e. AA?

B. To consign intelligent, capable people to inferior status in their colleagues eyes because those colleagues believe they got their position not because of merit, but because of AA?

C. Or let people sink and swim on their own initiative, competence, credentials, and merit so that they finally, at last, are considered equals with their white peers?
Click to expand...

C, no question.

Anyone who doesn't believe that he or she is capable of greatness will never achieve greatness.
 
Muhammed said:
There is no institutionalized anti-black racism in the US.
Click to expand...

False. It's a part of the fabric of our society and will remain so until people like you are willing to look at society honestly and stop claiming black mental inferiority accounts for society's ills.
 
AGENT J said:
good thing AA/EEO factually has nothing to do with any of that but thanks for that meaningless non-related rant
Click to expand...

Then why does AA/EEO factually exist? If minorities don't feel they deserve "special privilege" but believe they can compete on an equal basis, the there is absolutely not reason for AA programs to exist.

So either some have an "inferiority complex" and support AA type programs or they believe they are equal and don't want special "privilege". Apparently both exist, and thats the facts Jack.
 
DA60 said:
Whatever.

Debating with you is like trying to teach a dog to speak Norwegian...time consuming and completely pointless.

No offense intended.

Good day.
Click to expand...

I hear dogs learn Spanish much easier than Norwegian.;)
 
AGENT J said:
1.) good thats the right pick
2.) you are free to believe as you wish but that is factually what they do, this wont change. THey have a definition and rules and laws and rights to guide it all.
3.) Their beliefs are meaningless and so is the believes of thier uneducated colleagues to reality and facts. ANd the BEST fact us is we all benefit form AA/EEO no matter the race. And id said individual was given or denied something based on race that factually WAS NOT AA/EEO.

THese are the facts people have to educated themselves with and if they cant thier opinion dont matter anyway. People are free to THINK whatever they want if its not true why does it matter? it doesnt

4.) quotas are ILLEGAL and definitely not part of AA/EEO.

the problem with those people or the idiotic thoughts of thier colleagues that they worry about is that none of them understand what AA/EEO is.

If a minority believes they got somewhere because of a quota then they have to realize that that was factually not AA/EEO no matter what people call it and that illegal activity needs reported.
If thier non minority colleagues think they got there because of a quota then they have to realize that that was factually not AA/EEO no matter what people call it and that illegal activity needs reported.
I a minority is worried that thier colleagues think they got thier because of a quota it shouldnt matter one bit what dumb people think and they should simply do thier job proving others wrong.
Click to expand...

No quotas? You don't really read the posts at USMB do you. How many times EVERY DAY does somebody comment on how some organization or group or political party or whatever is all WHITE rich guys? That a photo of some gathering shows mostly WHITE faces? What happens if a large organization happens to be all white at the higher levels? If a school doesn't have a good percentage of minority students? How important is it whether a person is black or white being elected to Congress? How many of you would be happy with a Congress or state legislature or city council with no black people or other minorities or women in or on it?

How many times has the government required the military or fire or police departments etc. to lower standards so that more minorities or women could qualify? How many times has the government forced academia to set aside educational standards so more minorities, especially black people, could qualify? How many corporations have been pressured to accommodate more minorities or else lose out on lucrative contracts or other government provisions? How many minority advocacy groups have accused businesses of being racist because they were too WHITE?

And how many black people who have achieved great success are accused of being ungrateful if they don't give affirmative action credit for that success?

Yes they say quotas are now illegal--they haven't always been illegal--and they now call it underutilization. But there are penalties brought to bear if an organization is shown to not be showing good faith implementing its goals to correct underutilization meaning they aren't working hard enough or providing enough opportunity to minorities.

And that results in the perception that many minorities get their jobs because the organization HAD to hire them and not because they merited those positions. Maybe that doesn't bother you. It does bother my friends who have found themselves in that uncomfortable situation.
 
Muhammed said:
Howso? Prove it. I think you are lying.

Getting into college can make a huge difference in people's lives.

Granted, I probably had a huge advantage over my peers by not going to college and going straight into a career because I didn't need college. I was already smarter than the vast majority of college professors anyways. But getting into the right college can mean a lot to the average Joe.
Click to expand...

So you are very good looking and very smart. What the heck are you doing on this message board? You should be out turning the world upside down!
 
MildSteel said:
So what? We are talking about what has happened here in the United States of America in recent history.

What you don't realize is that racist governments, particularly in the southern part of the US, practiced systemic racism. There are people alive today who bear the very deep scares of such systemic racism. Your little poorly thought out post is fail, and an excuse for the systemic racism that was practiced, until recently in the US. Hell, my grandfather could not even conceive of being a doctor or a lawyer, Why? Because in his day, that was something that was reserved for white people. Do you really understand that? Can you really wrap your mind around what I just said?

Christ's sake? What the heck is that supposed to mean. If you are about responsibility, then government should take responsibility for the economic and psychological harm that was inflicted on blacks. That little lame rhetoric that you are spouting is a sorry excuse for the systemic failure of government to properly implement the idea that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with inalienable rights.
Click to expand...
That was then; this is now__Dwelling on the past only serves to stagnate and deteriorate_

Your only true restrictions are your limitations and abilities; both real and imagined_

Recipe For Success:

Obey the law and choose friends discriminately because you will be judged by the company you keep_

Educate yourself to the very best of your ability, speak well, be polite and dress for success_

Develop a good work ethic and attitude and work hard at whatever job you do and you will get noticed_

Never allow ridicule or rejection to culminate in blame and anger because it accomplishes nothing_

Instead evaluate yourself and the situation to figure out what might have caused the ridicule or rejection_

You will find that the color of your skin is inconsequential compared to these much more important attributes_

Or you can continue on your present course and never know the true meaning of happiness and success_
 
tres borrachos said:
Are you posting about racism, or Affirmative Action?

Barack Obama is living proof that AA is no longer needed, unless he's only where he is because of AA.

If he isn't, then you may want to study how he & his wife got to be the successes that they are so you can achieve what they have.
Click to expand...

I think at least some of us believe he probably is where he is because of AA. Which is a HUGE reason that AA should be discarded on the trash heap of history. Sorry. I couldn't resist. :)
 
ecofarm said:
False. It's a part of the fabric of our society and will remain so until people like you are willing to look at society honestly and stop claiming black mental inferiority accounts for society's ills.
Click to expand...

Isn't it sad to know people who think this way still exist? I just shake my head.:(
 
AlbqOwl said:
No quotas?
2.) You don't really read the posts at USMB do you.
3.) How many times EVERY DAY does somebody comment on how some organization or group or political party or whatever is all WHITE rich guys?
4.) That a photo of some gathering shows mostly WHITE faces?
5.) What happens if a large organization happens to be all white at the higher levels?
6.) If a school doesn't have a good percentage of minority students?
7.) How important is it whether a person is black or white being elected to Congress?
8.) How many of you would be happy with a Congress or state legislature or city council with no black people or other minorities or women in or on it?
9.) How many times has the government required the military or fire or police departments etc. to lower standards so that more minorities or women could qualify? How many times has the government forced academia to set aside educational standards so more minorities, especially black people, could qualify?
10.) How many corporations have been pressured to accommodate more minorities or else lose out on lucrative contracts or other government provisions?
11.) How many minority advocacy groups have accused businesses of being racist because they were too WHITE?
12.) And how many black people who have achieved great success are accused of being ungrateful if they don't give affirmative action credit for that success?
13.) Yes they say quotas are now illegal--
14.) they haven't always been illegal--and they now call it underutilization.
15.) But there are penalties brought to bear if an organization is shown to not be showing good faith implementing its goals to correct underutilization meaning they aren't working hard enough or providing enough opportunity to minorities.
16.) And that results in the perception that many minorities get their jobs because the organization HAD to hire them and not because they merited those positions.
17.) Maybe that doesn't bother you.
18.) It does bother my friends who have found themselves in that uncomfortable situation.
Click to expand...

1.) yes quotas are illegal per AA/EEO laws
2.) nope because they dont pertain to me OR AA/EEO
3.) dont know nor does it pertain to me or change the facts about AA/EEO
4.) see #2
5.) nothing if they didnt break the law and or followed AA/EEO
6.) see #5
7.) see #3
8.) ZERO impact to me if they didnt break the law and or followed AA/EO
9.) see #3
10.) see #3
11.) see #3
12.) see #3
13.) no I dont say they are illegal they factually are illegal, my say is meanignless
14.) see #3
15.) 100% false there are penalties for BREAKING the law and thats not just for minorities.
16.) again peoples misguided uneducated factually wrong perceptions does nothing to the facts
17.) no stupid people with factually false perceptions dont bother me
18.) you friends are misguided then

I know people that think both Obama and Bush are comparable to Hitler, those retards and thier stupidity have no effect on me because.
its a complete wast of time to be bothered by people that stupid.
Anybody that thinks i go my job only because of AA/EEO isnt to bright, hence im not bothered by them. I actually laugh at thier stupidity then find it sad.
thank you for proving my point about people simply dont know what it factually is

Can you explain a logical reason to be bothered by it on any real level?
 
Last edited:
DVSentinel said:
1.)Then why does AA/EEO factually exist?
2.)If minorities don't feel they deserve "special privilege" but believe they can compete on an equal basis, the there is absolutely not reason for AA programs to exist.
3.)So either some have an "inferiority complex" and support AA type programs or they believe they are equal and don't want special "privilege".
4.)Apparently both exist, and thats the facts Jack.
Click to expand...

1. to protect rights, ALL OF OUR RIGHTS
AA/EEO makes it ILLEGAL to make any hiring, firing, promotional, training, monetary, and benefit decisions based on race among many other things.

2.) false LMAO and minorities do not feel that way and AA/EEO is not just a minority thing

thank you for proving my point about people simply dont know what it factually is

3.) already proven false since your premise is factually false
4.) actually know facts prove otherwise but you are free to have any opinion you like even if you cant support it
 
Amanda1858 said:
What the heck are you doing on this message board?
Click to expand...
Hardly any of my off-line friends give a damn about politics. Most of the public is apathetic. They think I'm weird because sometimes I have C-SPAN on the TV. Most of them don't even vote. I visit sites like this and several other politically oriented sites because that's how I get my politics fix. It's one of my interests.
 
tres borrachos said:
Let's not forget the Congressional Black Caucus. Even the politicians draw lines.

Either we're a society of equals without color, or we're a society of different races. We can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...

But the second anyone points that out, they're called a racist. Blacks can't be racist because they're black. :roll:
 
Muhammed said:
Hardly any of my off-line friends give a damn about politics. Most of the public is apathetic. They think I'm weird because sometimes I have C-SPAN on the TV. Most of them don't even vote. I visit sites like this and several other politically oriented sites because that's how I get my politics fix. It's one of my interests.
Click to expand...

What a shame. Your great talent could be utilized some other way.
 
AGENT J said:
1. to protect rights, ALL OF OUR RIGHTS
AA/EEO makes it ILLEGAL to make any hiring, firing, promotional, training, monetary, and benefit decisions based on race among many other things.

2.) false LMAO and minorities do not feel that way and AA/EEO is not just a minority thing

thank you for proving my point about people simply dont know what it factually is

3.) already proven false since your premise is factually false
4.) actually know facts prove otherwise but you are free to have any opinion you like even if you cant support it
Click to expand...

Right. Minorities, ok, not all of them, don't support Liberals who promote these programs? They, like you would be happy to just see them fade away? Then why do they keep voting for people who continue them?

Right, good for everyone, That is why the University of Texas Law school got sued when a four White applicants were denied entry while "All had better combined LSAT and grade scores than 36 of the 43 Latinos admitted, and 16 of the 18 black students admitted." Ok, denying the more qualified while promoting the lesser qualified due to race helps everyone. Good luck with that one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom