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Are Affirmative Action programs racist?[W:110]

Are Affirmative Action programs racist?

  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .
shavingcollywob said:
I don't see how the situations are remotely different.
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You're denying the existence of institutionalized and systemic unjust discrimination against blacks and a system of privilege for whites in this country. You're just denying that real racism exists. That is not a respectable position, and it makes a laughable premise for racist rants.
 
AGENT J said:
never said there was only ONE, in fact i said definitionS as in plural. If you would like them please look it up in any corresponding dictionary you see fit. I like websters. You're welcome.
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So my point is going over your head. Let me slow this down: if there is more than one definition, then to know what you mean by the word, you need to state which definition you are using. I have no idea why you are afraid to do so.
 
votemout said:
I dont care who created it it is still a racist organization, racism is when a anyone that aspires to help only a certain group of people.
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Ignorance.

Read the whole definition.
 
ecofarm said:
If a white is turned down, there are a million institutions that will accept them.
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As opposed to the only one college in the world that enrolls black people?

:roll:
 
ecofarm said:
1.)Read the whole definition. You are the one ignoring facts.
2.)Ignorance, and ignoring context.
3.)More ignorance. Can't you just deal with the fact that a minority (in power) is not capable of institutionalized and systemic unjust discrimination? It's not a very complicated thing.
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1.) already did and the definitions support me :shrug:
2.) I agree to deny the facts i posted would be ignorance
3.) thank you for again proving my point and trying to use many qualifiers and to justified your failed point that does nothing to change the facts i posted.

can you qoute where i mentioned "institutionalized and systemic unjust discrimination"? oh thats right i didnt lol

facts remain, a black guy not hiring you only because you are white is factually racism, this fact will not change. :shrug:
SOrry this fact bother you but it doesnt care.
 
ecofarm said:
The part of the definition that specifies a system of unjust discrimination and privilege. That's something that blacks, in this country, are not capable of because they're a minority.

If a black says he hates whites, it will never affect my ability to get a job or a fair shake in court. A single black business owner might discriminate against my job application, but there are a million other places to go, and so it has no societal impact upon me.

If a white says he hate blacks, that carries very real implications for a black person.

That's the difference. Racism is a social construct, with social implications. Bigotry by blacks does not meet the definition.
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how racist of you! :lamo
 
Redress said:
So my point is going over your head. Let me slow this down: if there is more than one definition, then to know what you mean by the word, you need to state which definition you are using. I have no idea why you are afraid to do so.
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There is a whole definition. That includes systemic implications. Racists prefer to just take (1.) as the definition and thereby equate everything with racism. This is done in order to push their racist agenda by ignoring current inequities, past events that have enduring impacts and the difference between individual bigotry and societal bigotry.
 
ecofarm said:
You're denying the existence of institutionalized and systemic unjust discrimination against blacks and a system of privilege for whites in this country. You're just denying that real racism exists. That is not a respectable position, and it makes a laughable premise for racist rants.
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No, I'm pointing out that there are literally millions of jobs for black people.

Literally.

You made the point that it's not actually racist for a black business owner to refuse to hire a white person because a white person has a million other options. A black person has those exact same number of options.
 
votemout said:
I dont care who created it it is still a racist organization, racism is when a anyone that aspires to help only a certain group of people.
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I wonder how many people of color are with the Heritage Foundation has?
 
shavingcollywob said:
As opposed to the only one college in the world that enrolls black people?

:roll:
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Bigotry and unjust discrimination against blacks permeates our society. It causes them problems in employment, housing, schooling and the justice system.

That is not the case for whites.

See the difference?
 
sangha said:
It depends on how they're designed and implemented
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Affirmative action is the process of requiring large organizations to promote and hire employees in a way that ensure that the same percentage of applicants from each race group is equally represented in the hiring or promotion process.

Here is an example if you have 1000 applicants and 100 positions.

120 applicants are black
40 applicants are hispanic
20 applicants are asian
820 applicants are white

The company is required to hire these type of employees:

12 black people
4 hispanic people
2 asian people
82 white people

It gives equal opportunity for all race groups to cry foul. It is always administered the exact same way every single time.
 
Redress said:
So my point is going over your head. Let me slow this down: if there is more than one definition, then to know what you mean by the word, you need to state which definition you are using. I have no idea why you are afraid to do so.
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no it didnt my point went over yours, i actually agreed with you :shrug:

this is why i said people can only go by the real definitionS

what dont you get?

one specific one isnt required to be provided because neither of them negate the other.
Going by the definition of AA/EEO which is the discussion, there are ZERO definitions of racism that apply to AA/EEO. ZERO

Pick any definition you want and none of them will make AA/EEO racist.

Did you get that time, if not please let me know.
 
I can't answer the poll because it did not specify a particular period in time.

Affirmative action was necessary at one time to break down real cultural barriers that clearly existed and clearly disadvantaged certain groups of people. But that war has been won and we now need to stop fighting it.

If we are talking about here and now, yes, it is racist to discriminate against people of color or to favor people of color via Affirmative Action. It is racist to assume that a particular group of people cannot make it without 'whitey's' (government) help and it is racist and diminishes excellence for all of us when standards are lowered so one group of people can qualify for no other reason than they are female or people of color or whatever.

Affirmative Action is also cruel to people who are branded 'beneficiaries of Affirmative Action' and token whatever even though they honorably earned their credentials and place in the world on their own initiative. To force that upon people is also unacceptable racism.
 
AJiveMan said:
I wonder how many people of color the Heritage Foundation has?
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I have no idea, but since "people of color" tend to vote democrat, and for more fiscally liberal policies and institutions, I'd be surprised if many of them WANT to work for, or have anything to do with, the Heritage Foundation.
 
ecofarm said:
No, they don't. Use the whole definition.
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repeat that 50 times and it will change nothing


FACTS
AA/EEO is factually not racism
a black man not giving you a job because you are white is factually racism

those two facts will never change.
 
AGENT J said:
repeat that 50 times and it will change nothing


FACTS
AA/EEO is factually not racism
a black man not giving you a job because you are white is factually racism

those two facts will never change.
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Such zealous ignorance.
 
votemout said:
I dont care who created it it is still a racist organization, racism is when a anyone that aspires to help only a certain group of people.
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AGENT J said:
no it didnt my point went over yours, i actually agreed with you :shrug:

this is why i said people can only go by the real definitionS

what dont you get?

one specific one isnt required to be provided because neither of them negate the other.
Going by the definition of AA/EEO which is the discussion, there are ZERO definitions of racism that apply to AA/EEO. ZERO

Pick any definition you want and none of them will make AA/EEO racist.

Did you get that time, if not please let me know.
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There is a definition of racism under which AA fits. So you want to counter with your definition?
 
AGENT J said:
Factually AA/EEO is not racist and can't be by definition. This fact will never change.

Now do some people and Orgs practice things that are racist? yes absolutely but by definition thats NOT AA/EEO. This is the reality that many people simply don understand.
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Equal Employment Opportunity is the law today. Affirmative Action is no longer the law. Affirmative Action in theory could require companies to hire unqualified candidates. Equal Employment Opportunity is more in line with Martin Luther King Jr.'s idea that men would be judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. Affirmative Action takes the opposite approach of judging a person only by the color of his skin.
 
DA60 said:
I have little to add...other then I completely disagree with anyone being forced/encouraged by government to hire someone over someone else purely due to the melanin content of their skin.
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Martin Luther King said the same exact thing.
 
ecofarm said:
Ignorance.

Read the whole definition.
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group - Yahoo Dictionary Search Results

groupVariation
Houghton Mifflin

n.noun

An assemblage of persons or objects gathered or located together; an aggregation.

a group of dinner guests; a group of buildings near the road.

Two or more figures that make up a unit or design, as in sculpture.

A number of individuals or things considered together because of similarities.

a small group of supporters across the country.

A category of related languages that is less inclusive than a family.

A military unit consisting of two or more battalions and a headquarters.

A unit of two or more squadrons in the U.S. Air Force, smaller than a wing.

A class or collection of related objects or entities, as.

Two or more atoms behaving or regarded as behaving as a single chemical unit.

A column in the periodic table of the elements.

A stratigraphic unit, especially a unit consisting of two or more formations deposited during a single geologic era.

A set with a binary associative operation such that the operation admits an identity element and each element of the set has an inverse element for the operation.

Racism | Define Racism at Dictionary.com


racism
  Use Racism in a sentence
rac·ism
[rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Origin:
 
votemout said:
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
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Don't forget that part. It's what blacks suffer in this country and whites do not.
 
Redress said:
There is a definition of racism under which AA fits. So you want to counter with your definition?
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nope there are none, not REAL AA/EEO.
maybe something that people try to call AA/EEO but that wonr make it so.
ZERO defections of racism fit AA/EEO.

AA/EEO makes it ILLEGAL to make any hiring, firing, promotional, training, monetary, and benefit decisions based on race.

Thats what reall AA/EEO is.
 
lizzie said:
I have no idea, but since "people of color" tend to vote democrat, and for more fiscally liberal policies and institutions, I'd be surprised if many of them WANT to work for, or have anything to do with, the Heritage Foundation.
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Some are drawing to the conclusion that the NAACP is racist. I was wondering if Heritage is.
 
Redress said:
There is a definition of racism under which AA fits. So you want to counter with your definition?
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No there is not. You're ignoring parts of the definition.
 
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