View Poll Results: Have Feminists Been Used By Corporations To Exploit Women For Profit?

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    11 47.83%
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Thread: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?[W:29]

  1. #161
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    the only feminists I have met were mean,fat,ugly,old, lesbian women with butch haircuts. A normal pretty woman doesn't have to be a feminist to get what she wants. All she has to do is smile.
    Actually, the most Obese people on the Planet reside in the Middle East.
    Mostly Gulf State Arabs and "starv!ng" Palestinians .. running at 1/3 or more.

    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  2. #162
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Corporations exploit everything for corporate profit. That doesn't invalidate the things they're exploiting, only the corporations and their profits.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What is interesting in the instance of feminism is that it appears to have advocated ideals like freedom, and the empowerment of women, without actually having put much thought into what exactly it meant to be free and empowered. Driven by a subconscious disdain for men, it blindly thrashes about seeking freedom from any type of constraints that might be imposed by men, while at the same time only having those constraints to use as weapons. It therefore escapes one type of trap only to be ensnared by a trap that is much more sophisticated. That's what is very interesting about the saga of feminism.
    So, it turns out you don't know much about feminism at all then.
    I'm actually a little disappointed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It is very sad that the leaders of the feminist movement have allowed feminism to be used as a prostitute for the sake of increasing corporate profits. In the process, instead of empowering and freeing women in general, they have merely made them corporate slaves at best or unemployed single moms, dependent on the welfare state at worse.
    I've already posted about this - 'feminism' is not a monolithic movement. There is no secret Feminist Cabinet that all feminists (radfem or otherwise) submit planning applications to.

    You seem to be beating a dead horse here now - or rather, trying to increaingly use one example to trash your version of 'feminism' as a whole. It's been pretty much agreed by all that equality is good, independence is good, but that the two sometimes conflict - and that capitalism exploits all things, from communism to feminism to conservatism, both men to women. That's about all that you can get from this - but you seem to be trying for more.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    [QUOTE=iangb;1063254489]So, it turns out you don't know much about feminism at all then.
    I'm actually a little disappointed.

    It appears that your objection is

    Mildsteel said

    Driven by a subconscious disdain for men
    In some cases, it's not subconscious at all. In other cases, it manifest in the constant use of patriarchy as an object of blame and disdain. There is no doubt that there exists quite a bit of hostility between the sexes. Men are affected by it, and feminists are no exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    I've already posted about this - 'feminism' is not a monolithic movement. There is no secret Feminist Cabinet that all feminists (radfem or otherwise) submit planning applications to.
    The leaders of the movement did not speak out against such exploitation. And some, such as Billy Jean King directly participated in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    You seem to be beating a dead horse here now - or rather, trying to increaingly use one example to trash your version of 'feminism' as a whole.
    It's not a dead horse by a long shot. I have given an example of how such exploitation continues to this day. Beyonce is put forward as a role model for feminism. But Beyonce has contributed to the notion of the objectification of women.

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    It's been pretty much agreed by all that equality is good, independence is good, but that the two sometimes conflict - and that capitalism exploits all things, from communism to feminism to conservatism, both men to women. That's about all that you can get from this - but you seem to be trying for more.
    I have stated what is problematic in the instance of feminism. Show me where a large corporation is exploiting communism in such a way that if you consume that product, you will be free of capitalist control.

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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Actually, the most Obese people on the Planet reside in the Middle East.
    Mostly Gulf State Arabs and "starv!ng" Palestinians .. running at 1/3 or more.
    Not as fat as you tried to make that mandate.

    BTW, you are in the wrong thread.

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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Corporations exploit everything for corporate profit. That doesn't invalidate the things they're exploiting, only the corporations and their profits.
    In this instance feminism was exploited in such a way that the exploitation countered the very goals that feminism tries to achieve, e.g. independence and empowerment.

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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    In some cases, it's not subconscious at all. In other cases, it manifest in the constant use of patriarchy as an object of blame and disdain. There is no doubt that there exists quite a bit of hostility between the sexes. Men are affected by it, and feminists are no exception.
    It is largely non-existent - you may feel it (in fact, you indirectly admit to doing so here) but don't project your own feelings onto others. There are plenty of male feminists, and female feminists, who do not feel 'disdain for men'.

    The leaders of the movement did not speak out against such exploitation. And some, such as Billy Jean King directly participated in it.
    How many times do I have to say this? There is no monolithic 'movement'. There is no 'leaders', because there is lots of people who probably would disagree with each other over all sorts of things (see, for example, radfems vs trans feminism) but who all have the common aim of 'equality'. That's feminism, at it's core, but beyond that, there is no overwhelming organisation. This isn't Catholicism.

    It's not a dead horse by a long shot. I have given an example of how such exploitation continues to this day. Beyonce is put forward as a role model for feminism. But Beyonce has contributed to the notion of the objectification of women.
    And, like your original example, that example is met with the response of "all ideologies are exploited by capitalism", and "feminism is not monolithic". There is at least one school of thought within feminism which has absolutely no issue with objectification, as long as the woman herself is the one choosing to be portrayed in an objectifying light.

    I have stated what is problematic in the instance of feminism. Show me where a large corporation is exploiting communism in such a way that if you consume that product, you will be free of capitalist control.
    The Communist Manifesto - now only £4.49!.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    It is largely non-existent - you may feel it (in fact, you indirectly admit to doing so here) but don't project your own feelings onto others.
    Non-existent? I disagree. There is no need to project because it's already there. Surely you must have heard of Catherine MacKinnon. According to Stanford Law School professor Kathleen Sullivan

    "There are many other prominent feminist theorists in our times, but none of their philosophy is as sweeping and profound as MacKinnon's."
    MacKinnon has said that Andrea Dworkin was

    "an inspiration for so many women."
    Here's what Andrea Dworkin had to say regarding men

    “Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman."
    Surely such sentiments would be inspiring for persons who have a subconscious disdain of men.

    Here's an interesting video



    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    There are plenty of male feminists, and female feminists, who do not feel 'disdain for men'.
    Perhaps, but there are plenty that do.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 05-09-14 at 07:16 PM.

  9. #169
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    How many times do I have to say this? There is no monolithic 'movement'. There is no 'leaders', because there is lots of people who probably would disagree with each other over all sorts of things (see, for example, radfems vs trans feminism) but who all have the common aim of 'equality'. That's feminism, at it's core, but beyond that, there is no overwhelming organisation. This isn't Catholicism.
    Feminists have been able to speak out against patriarchy. Why have they not spoken out against the use of feminism itself as a tool for the exploitation of women?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    And, like your original example, that example is met with the response of "all ideologies are exploited by capitalism", and "feminism is not monolithic". There is at least one school of thought within feminism which has absolutely no issue with objectification, as long as the woman herself is the one choosing to be portrayed in an objectifying light.
    My response is that feminism cannot proclaim to be against the objectification of women, but at the same time support such objectification. It's just inconsistent.

    Mildsteel said
    Show me where a large corporation is exploiting communism in such a way that if you consume that product, you will be free of capitalist control.
    iangb responded
    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    I'm not talking about putting a book for sale on Amazon. I'm talking about a large corporation deliberately associating the ideals of communism with the consumption of a product as in



    and



    So, for example, show me a Nike ad, (or any other corporate commodity) that put's forward the notion that by wearing Nike's you are freeing yourself of capitalist control.

  10. #170
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Feminists have been able to speak out against patriarchy. Why have they not spoken out against the use of feminism itself as a tool for the exploitation of women?



    My response is that feminism cannot proclaim to be against the objectification of women, but at the same time support such objectification. It's just inconsistent.

    Mildsteel said


    iangb responded


    I'm not talking about putting a book for sale on Amazon. I'm talking about a large corporation deliberately associating the ideals of communism with the consumption of a product as in


    and


    So, for example, show me a Nike ad, (or any other corporate commodity) that put's forward the notion that by wearing Nike's you are freeing yourself of capitalist control.
    Apple comes to mind in the 'anti-communist regime' advertisement crowd - but you're going back to the 70's . . . So: 15 Interesting Cold War Vintage Ads (war advertising, war ads) - ODDEE
    We waged war against communism in a sense.

    Marketers target anything if it'll make a sale.

    As for anti capitalistic: seen Che anywhere? I did - just yesterday I stopped in at Hot Topics to look for a T-shirt for my husband. There he was: on a shirt, faithful as always.

    To advertise against a political system you merely need to embody or embrace figures that stand as such. Che Guerva is one, and anything aimed toward Freedom Fights and Occupy Wallstreet would be advertisement example for another.

    There's nothing that's off limits: if it will make money it will be marketed somehow, by someone, to someone.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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