View Poll Results: Have Feminists Been Used By Corporations To Exploit Women For Profit?

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Thread: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?[W:29]

  1. #141
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    When did I ever say that women having the right to vote was a bad thing? Not sure where you pull that assertion from based on what I have said.



    I am not against women in the workplace at all. What I am against is the idea that the workplace offers women or men power over the other. The idea that working gives one power is completely a false notion. It actually has the reverse effect. When you enter the workforce, you have less power. You become dependent on the income your job provides and end up sacrificing things you want to do to accomodate your career and the need the income from it provides. All the women's rights movement has accomplished in the way of workplace equality is equally distribute the burden of providing for the family while sacrificing ones own freedoms to do what they want with their lives.



    What does this have to do with me being a perfect person. Not following where your going.



    Typical man shaming tactic. As if men are not allowed to voice their concerns, but the minute a woman does the room should fall silent and contently listen to her concerns. What are you going to say next.. I have a small penis and cant get laid?



    Many of the extremist feminists are in high positions of government. Many are teachers at big universities in Womens studies programs. They are very influencial in the political arena. Society has become feminized to the point that men have simply just given up. They have no avenue to defend themselves because all avenues lead to silencing tactics by feminists and their enablers. All it takes is a few lines of rhetoric from a feminist and it silences a room of men who are "whining" about their problems.
    I'll point out that you said: "When we look back in history 100 years from now, we will see feminism as one of the most destructive doctorines of all time. It will also be the destruction of the US economy and its people."

    You were pretty blunt, there. It was pretty hard to interpret that any other way other than: Feminism is the worst thing - ever - to grace the face of the earth. Women who espouse any of these beliefs - single handedly - destroyed the United States economy and everyone in it. Which includes all things related to feminism or that have come around because of feminism.

    If you don't have issues with women voting, working, etc (the fundamentals of feminism) - then you really don't believe the very thing that you wrote.

    Now if you want to stick to the 'extremists cause issues' then I'm right there with you - but, clearly, you can see how heavy handed and out of line your statement was.

    Unfortunately: it seems that some people live in a history bubble where they seem oblivious to the state of our nation's economy, political climate, and so many other things in the decades (centuries) before feminism took root in any form. Some people seem to believe that things were all perfect and wonderful - and then women popped their brastraps and destroyed the earth!

    LOL

    Dramatics.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 05-04-14 at 10:12 PM.
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  2. #142
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'll point out that you said: "When we look back in history 100 years from now, we will see feminism as one of the most destructive doctorines of all time. It will also be the destruction of the US economy and its people."

    You were pretty blunt, there. It was pretty hard to interpret that any other way other than: Feminism is the worst thing - ever - to grace the face of the earth. Women who espouse any of these beliefs - single handedly - destroyed the United States economy and everyone in it. Which includes all things related to feminism or that have come around because of feminism.
    I was blunt, and purposefully so. The reason feminism has been able to continue is because people like you have contributed the vote and equality to current day feminism which is completely false. Current day feminism has evolved beyond equality into a political ideology which is more interested in promoting women's interests more then promoting equality.

    I am a first wave feminist in every regard. I believe women should be equal before the law. Which means when a woman is convicted of statutory rape, she should be given equal punishment. And also there should be equal social condemnation of such acts. When a woman commits any crime, she should be equally punished as anyone else would be. This is not happening. Women are sentenced much less often and also receive lighter sentences then men for the same crimes. Many female sex offenders are not even forced to register as sex offenders, where as a man who is 19 has to register for having sex with a 17 year old.

    I believe that men and women should have all the same oppertunities to become educated and successful working individuals in society. Currently, the education system heavily favors women. The statistics don't lie. 60% and rising is the figure of women who earn degree's from colleges. And there are still programs with heavy financial backing to help women thru college even after it has been proven they consist of the majority of those who attend and graduate. There is also a big push in colleges to equal not only the educational value, but the value of services offered. This is called Title IX. And is the reason why many universities have had to disband their male sports teams because they are being forced to offer 50/50 in the realm of athletic programs. Since they can't recruit enough women to sustain their male sports programs, many are forced to get rid of their male programs in order to comply with title IX.

    I am also completely baffled by the draconian law surrounding divorce. While women have been given all the tools to take care of themselves the law still heavily favors them in family court. Many times giving them custody and large sums of money. The man, many times, is left destitute without a home, and living in squalid poverty. If women are now equal to men then why have the rules in family court not changed since the 40's and 50's?

    If you don't have issues with women voting, working, etc (the fundamentals of feminism) - then you really don't believe the very thing that you wrote.

    Now if you want to stick to the 'extremists cause issues' then I'm right there with you - but, clearly, you can see how heavy handed and out of line your statement was.

    Unfortunately: it seems that some people live in a history bubble where they seem oblivious to the state of our nation's economy, political climate, and so many other things in the decades (centuries) before feminism took root in any form. Some people seem to believe that things were all perfect and wonderful - and then women popped their brastraps and destroyed the earth!

    LOLI]Dramatics[/I].
    Feminism is the gasoline fuling our economic problems. It will be difficult to build a successful economy when we are so defunct socially. As a result of feminism, divorce rates are higher then they have ever been, single mothers are more prevailent then they have ever been.. And as a result of that, in the last 30+ years, crime rates have risen due to children growing up in unstable homes. There will be a domino effect, and the first few domino's have already fallen.

    [
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  3. #143
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I was blunt, and purposefully so. The reason feminism has been able to continue is because people like you have contributed the vote and equality to current day feminism which is completely false. Current day feminism has evolved beyond equality into a political ideology which is more interested in promoting women's interests more then promoting equality.
    Some things going on today under the label of feminism just isn't feminism. It's sexism. Case by case depending on the circumstances, of course.

    I am a first wave feminist in every regard. I believe women should be equal before the law. Which means when a woman is convicted of statutory rape, she should be given equal punishment. And also there should be equal social condemnation of such acts. When a woman commits any crime, she should be equally punished as anyone else would be. This is not happening. Women are sentenced much less often and also receive lighter sentences then men for the same crimes. Many female sex offenders are not even forced to register as sex offenders, where as a man who is 19 has to register for having sex with a 17 year old.
    Agree here.

    I believe that men and women should have all the same oppertunities to become educated and successful working individuals in society. Currently, the education system heavily favors women. The statistics don't lie. 60% and rising is the figure of women who earn degree's from colleges. And there are still programs with heavy financial backing to help women thru college even after it has been proven they consist of the majority of those who attend and graduate. There is also a big push in colleges to equal not only the educational value, but the value of services offered. This is called Title IX. And is the reason why many universities have had to disband their male sports teams because they are being forced to offer 50/50 in the realm of athletic programs. Since they can't recruit enough women to sustain their male sports programs, many are forced to get rid of their male programs in order to comply with title IX.
    So: here is the same case as reliance on welfare.

    1: They identify a problem (in this case: fewer women were attending college and graduating)
    2: They pushed to correct this imbalance.
    3: The efforts were successful. More women attend and graduate than men in some areas (specialty and focus counts quite a bit, here. There are some lines of work - like primary education, nursing, and a few other things, that are stigmatized for men to do, so those areas are often populated by female students).
    4: After the efforts were successful (this is the clincher) the push and focus didn't shift to reflect this success.

    This #4: Stopping once the desired result is achieved - is the main source of issues behind support programs of any nature. If you don't taper off, ease back, or find a way to keep things in *balance* then things get thrown *out of balance* rather quickly.

    Higher education is a very good example.

    I am also completely baffled by the draconian law surrounding divorce. While women have been given all the tools to take care of themselves the law still heavily favors them in family court. Many times giving them custody and large sums of money. The man, many times, is left destitute without a home, and living in squalid poverty. If women are now equal to men then why have the rules in family court not changed since the 40's and 50's?
    This stumps me, too - and we've seen a shift in *some* areas but it's still not a full balance reflected in the laws across the country. It's case by case, region by region - etc. Select.

    The only reason I see is that feminism - the concept of gender equality and equal treatment - simply hasn't taken hold in every place as it needs to be. Some people, both men and women, push against the concept entirely - and some states simply haven't made it a priority where others have.

    Feminism is the gasoline fuling our economic problems. It will be difficult to build a successful economy when we are so defunct socially. As a result of feminism, divorce rates are higher then they have ever been, single mothers are more prevailent then they have ever been.. And as a result of that, in the last 30+ years, crime rates have risen due to children growing up in unstable homes. There will be a domino effect, and the first few domino's have already fallen.
    But no - feminism is not gasoline fueling our economic problems. That's the weak, lazy approach to addressing our nation's economic issues and state per employment and so forth.

    When it comes to the workforce: Issues at hand are rooted in corporate behaviors (outsourcing, for example) among a large number of other things. It's multi-faceted and complicated and simply pointing fingers at every working woman as if it's all her fault is not going to arrive anywhere rather quickly. (though I know you'll equate 'some women' and not 'all women' to this). This is evident ESPECIALLY when the higher levels of corporations and political circles are still predominately male-led.

    When it comes to the topic of divorce rates. They're actually quite low when you look at the large scale of things. Last I researched those numbers (a few years ago) we were actually DOWN to a number near the 1950's divorce rate (this is the decade many people use as the golden scale).

    And, let's not pretend that divorces are all female-led, or even led by only feminist females. Many men file for divorce, as well. And today - unprecedented in US history - there's a growing number of couples simply separating because of differences. No one was abusive, no one cheated. They just decided that they didn't want to be together after-all.

    So while feminism might have started some things - or encourage some women to see their selves of some things differently - it's not the sole cause for many shifts in our society.

    Would anyone actually expect a woman (or man, for that matter) to stay married to an unfaithful partner? A drug addict? An abuser? No - no one expects that. Yet often, in the past (due to social stigma, the inability for a single woman to sustain herself or her children outside of a marriage, even if it was a terrible way to live, etc) women and men both stayed married even when their lives together were like rotting fruit.

    Is that feminism? Some might be - but I don't think all of that is. Some of that is due to people's inabilities to reconcile minor differences. Yet other cases are related to a rise in domestic violence. So on - so forth. It's very case by case.

    You saying 'feminism is the fuel for our country's downfall' is just the same as extreme feminists saying that 'males are the fuel for our society's downfall' - which is entirely untrue.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    why do you believe that is the case, when socialism can do it for free?
    Let me say it like this. There is a game called Monopoly. In that game there is money. Now you can buy things in that game with that money. And in a certain sense you can say it's money. But if you go to the store and try to buy something with it, you would be considered a clown. A system of morals that is constructed with capital as a basis, is just like monopoly money. If all of a sudden when people started communicating with one another and you asked someone how much money they had and it didn't matter if they replied with the amount of monopoly money they accumulated in a monopoly game, or a widely accepted, valid currency, money as a concept would become meaningless.

    Another example, since you appear to understand things in terms of capital. Let's suppose that all of a sudden everyone, each individual, company, and bank, could determine the value of the dollars that they had in their possession. So for example a bank with 100 million dollars at the Federal Reserve could say that it now had 100 trillion. An individual with 100 dollars in his account at Chase bank could say he had 100 million. What effect do you think that would have on the value of the dollar? The answer is that the dollar would become worthless. In a similar way, the construction of a system of morals, based on capital, would render right and wrong meaningless.

  5. #145
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    In my view - those who denigrate stay at home mothers and so forth and claim to represent feminism aren't actually feminists. Some are just outright misogynists (hating women. And even perhaps that's not strong enough. They dislike anyone or anything that's reflective of traditional gender roles, or modest gender roles. Is there a term for that? Because they're way *out there* with their views).
    From what I have understood, the denigration of stay at home housewives is indeed a part of mainstream feminism. And that's a big problem that I have. Not only that but mainstream feminism has a subtle, disdain for men in general.

    The problem with radical feminism is that it's advocates occupy various positions in academia from which they influence intellectual discourse and attract followers. Though their influence is not widespread, it is substantial enough to make it's presence known.

  6. #146
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Let me say it like this. There is a game called Monopoly. In that game there is money. Now you can buy things in that game with that money. And in a certain sense you can say it's money. But if you go to the store and try to buy something with it, you would be considered a clown. A system of morals that is constructed with capital as a basis, is just like monopoly money. If all of a sudden when people started communicating with one another and you asked someone how much money they had and it didn't matter if they replied with the amount of monopoly money they accumulated in a monopoly game, or a widely accepted, valid currency, money as a concept would become meaningless.

    Another example, since you appear to understand things in terms of capital. Let's suppose that all of a sudden everyone, each individual, company, and bank, could determine the value of the dollars that they had in their possession. So for example a bank with 100 million dollars at the Federal Reserve could say that it now had 100 trillion. An individual with 100 dollars in his account at Chase bank could say he had 100 million. What effect do you think that would have on the value of the dollar? The answer is that the dollar would become worthless. In a similar way, the construction of a system of morals, based on capital, would render right and wrong meaningless.
    Why do you believe our fiat money is declared legal tender for all debts, public and private, via the mechanism of our Social contract? In any case, private parties could use Monopoly money if they agree to it, or even corporate paper.

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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Why do you believe our fiat money is declared legal tender for all debts, public and private, via the mechanism of our Social contract? In any case, private parties could use Monopoly money if they agree to it, or even corporate paper.
    The moment that private parties use Monopoly money in that fashion, it is not Monopoly money because they will have to make some association between the Monopoly money and something of value outside of the game of Monopoly. And that's really the crux of my disagreement with you. In this case it is possible because Monopoly money is just paper, just like fiat currency, such as the dollar. But in the case of moral values, your construction of a system of morals based on capital poses some problems.

    To see this, let's revisit your position. You have stated that capital based morals for a price is to be expected under capitalism. Here, the subtle implication is that it is acceptable, "right" if you will, under capitalism for a feminist to assist corporations in conditioning women to believe the lie that if they consume corporate commodities they will become free, independent, and empowered. And your justification is that this is because we would expect capital based morals to be acceptable under capitalism. What you have done here is to make the same association of the notion of what is "right" under our current widely accepted, what you call system of social morals, with what is "right" under a capital based system of morals. And that's the problem. You want to substitute our current widely accepted system of morals, with a system of morals that is capital based.

    To see why this cannot be done one need only consider that our current laws are based on our current system of morals that have specific notions about what is right and what is wrong. If we now were to incorporate a system of capital based morals into our current system of morals, we would have to rewrite our laws. For example, our laws would have to be modified such that it is permissible to murder an innocent person, if it could be proved that the murder was for profit. And that is simply unacceptable, because that example illustrates that capital based morals don't map to our current system of morals well.

    Now you may say again that I am confusing capital based morals with social morals. And my response is that you have confused them, because you are trying to substitute capital based morals for our current system of morality.

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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    They have been sold this crap cake of how wonderful it is to be in the workforce just to find out how un-wonderful it is to HAVE to work. Men have known this for centuries. That is why it is called work and not pleasure. Because work is not pleasurable! Corporate America have served women the same crap sandwhich us men have been forced to take a bite of for thousands of years. Congratulations!!! Enjoy your 30 minute lunch!
    Yep, ain't that the truth. Again the relevant quote from Marx:

    He, who before was the money-owner, now strides in front as capitalist; the possessor of labour-power follows as his labourer. The one with an air of importance, smirking, intent on business; the other, timid and holding back, like one who is bringing his own hide to market and has nothing to expect but a hiding.
    NOTHING TO EXPECT BUT - A HIDING!!!

  9. #149
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The moment that private parties use Monopoly money in that fashion, it is not Monopoly money because they will have to make some association between the Monopoly money and something of value outside of the game of Monopoly. And that's really the crux of my disagreement with you. In this case it is possible because Monopoly money is just paper, just like fiat currency, such as the dollar. But in the case of moral values, your construction of a system of morals based on capital poses some problems.

    To see this, let's revisit your position. You have stated that capital based morals for a price is to be expected under capitalism. Here, the subtle implication is that it is acceptable, "right" if you will, under capitalism for a feminist to assist corporations in conditioning women to believe the lie that if they consume corporate commodities they will become free, independent, and empowered. And your justification is that this is because we would expect capital based morals to be acceptable under capitalism. What you have done here is to make the same association of the notion of what is "right" under our current widely accepted, what you call system of social morals, with what is "right" under a capital based system of morals. And that's the problem. You want to substitute our current widely accepted system of morals, with a system of morals that is capital based.

    To see why this cannot be done one need only consider that our current laws are based on our current system of morals that have specific notions about what is right and what is wrong. If we now were to incorporate a system of capital based morals into our current system of morals, we would have to rewrite our laws. For example, our laws would have to be modified such that it is permissible to murder an innocent person, if it could be proved that the murder was for profit. And that is simply unacceptable, because that example illustrates that capital based morals don't map to our current system of morals well.

    Now you may say again that I am confusing capital based morals with social morals. And my response is that you have confused them, because you are trying to substitute capital based morals for our current system of morality.
    How do you view any legal requirement for a for-profit Firm to make a profit? It could be viewed as that form of (capital) moral right, versus a (capital) moral wrong in being repugnant to making a profit, potentially, through "poor life choices".

  10. #150
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    Re: Have Feminists Been Used To Exploit Women For Corporate Profit?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    How do you view any legal requirement for a for-profit Firm to make a profit? It could be viewed as that form of (capital) moral right, versus a (capital) moral wrong in being repugnant to making a profit, potentially, through "poor life choices".
    In my opinion such a law would be unjust and therefore immoral. It's not reasonable to expect all businesses to always be profitable. Business is usually a matter of winning more than you lose over a given period of time.

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