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Death Penalty, for or against

Do you support the death penalty?

  • Total voters
    134
Lursa said:
I already countered that prison is not part of society. Please dont repeat yourself.
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Since it is... by extension, apparently you are wrong and your insistence that your opinion is correct is incorrect.
 
ChrisL said:
Right, prison is where we put them to take them OUT of society. Prison guards and the like are quite well aware of the risks they are under and they get paid to do it.
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The risks are irrelevant. The fact that members are affected in any manner, then go back into traditional society... makes it a fact that prison is a part of society, no matter how hard it is attempted to "remove" it.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The risks are irrelevant. The fact that members are affected in any manner, then go back into traditional society... makes it a fact that prison is a part of society, no matter how hard it is attempted to "remove" it.
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No it isn't a part of society. It is prison, where we house prisoners to separate them from society.
 
ChrisL said:
No it isn't a part of society. It is prison, where we house prisoners to separate them from society.
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Of course it is a part of society. Members of society work there. Come and go. Etc. To think otherwise is literally idiotic. They are separate from most of society but they are still a part of it no matter how small a part of it. There is not some magical veil or alternate reality that separates the two. :lol:
 
Bodhisattva said:
Of course it is a part of society. Members of society work there. Come and go. Etc. To think otherwise is literally idiotic. They are separate from most of society but they are still a part of it no matter how small a part of it. There is not some magical veil or alternate reality that separates the two. :lol:
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No it isn't Bodi, hence the bars and the no freedom. :roll:
 
ChrisL said:
No it isn't Bodi, hence the bars and the no freedom. :roll:
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Chris... a prison is a part of society. Why you argue against this is beyond me. A prison is simply a part of society that falls under the state's jurisdiction. It is as much a part of society as a monastery is. There are parts of air ports that are locked to the public, have locks on them, etc and it is still a part of society.

so·ci·e·ty noun \sə-ˈsī-ə-tē\
: people in general thought of as living together in organized communities with shared laws, traditions, and values
: the people of a particular country, area, time, etc., thought of especially as an organized community

Society - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

If the prison were isolated on an island in a distinct place or on the moon then it probably wouldn't be a part of the society... but as most prisons are just in a different part of town they are a part of society. A prison is of a particular country, area, time. A prison is a part of organized communities with shared laws, traditions, and values. A prison has workers that go in and out of the prison on a daily basis to homes and other jobs that are equally a part of society.

You are letting the common term: Remover them from society... to mean everything. It doesn't literally mean remove them from society but rather to isolate them from other members of society in a more secure manner so as to effectively not have to worry about them.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Chris... a prison is a part of society. Why you argue against this is beyond me. A prison is simply a part of society that falls under the state's jurisdiction. It is as much a part of society as a monastery is. There are parts of air ports that are locked to the public, have locks on them, etc and it is still a part of society.

so·ci·e·ty noun \sə-ˈsī-ə-tē\
: people in general thought of as living together in organized communities with shared laws, traditions, and values
: the people of a particular country, area, time, etc., thought of especially as an organized community

Society - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

If the prison were isolated on an island in a distinct place or on the moon then it probably wouldn't be a part of the society... but as most prisons are just in a different part of town they are a part of society. A prison is of a particular country, area, time. A prison is a part of organized communities with shared laws, traditions, and values. A prison has workers that go in and out of the prison on a daily basis to homes and other jobs that are equally a part of society.

You are letting the common term: Remover them from society... to mean everything. It doesn't literally mean remove them from society but rather to isolate them from other members of society in a more secure manner so as to effectively not have to worry about them.
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No, people in monasteries are free to go if they so choose. That's not quite the same with prisoners. :mrgreen: They lose their freedom and are separated from "regular" society. Happy?
 
Alyssa said:
That is not my argument. But in cases where horrific crimes have been committed (child rape/murder, serial killers, etc), absolutely. What is your solution?
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As much as I would like to see some of those people die, I think that LWOP is a perfectly fine alternative. There are numerous reasons why too, such as costs, the risk of killing innocent people, how it's arbitrarily applied from state to state. There have also been racial disparities found, evidence tampering, prosecutorial misconduct and outright lying among other things that have happened.
 
ChrisL said:
No, people in monasteries are free to go if they so choose. That's not quite the same with prisoners. :mrgreen: They lose their freedom and are separated from "regular" society. Happy?
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Not yet. I am stating the "prisons" are a part of society. Prisoners are a part of that society... though more limited. Non-criminals are free to come and go to and from prisons and many prisoners themselves are able to come and go as well for chain-gangs, clean-up duty, house arrest, etc.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Not yet. I am stating the "prisons" are a part of society. Prisoners are a part of that society... though more limited. Non-criminals are free to come and go to and from prisons and many prisoners themselves are able to come and go as well for chain-gangs, clean-up duty, house arrest, etc.
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Chain gangs are illegal now because of "political correctness" but that's another story. Anyhow, no prison is much different than being free out in society. We have prisons to separate dangerous people from the rest of us.
 
For. But with conditions.
 
ChrisL said:
Chain gangs are illegal now because of "political correctness" but that's another story. Anyhow, no prison is much different than being free out in society. We have prisons to separate dangerous people from the rest of us.
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No, they are not illegal. Political Correctness is not a law either...

Several jurisdictions in the United States have re-introduced prison labor. In recent years, Maricopa County, Arizona, which includes Phoenix, Arizona, and its Sheriff Joe Arpaio, have drawn attention from human rights groups for the use of chain gangs for both men and women.

Chain gang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With regards to the rest I know that you understand and accept what I am saying it is just that you want to save face...
 
Bodhisattva said:
No, they are not illegal. Political Correctness is not a law either...

Several jurisdictions in the United States have re-introduced prison labor. In recent years, Maricopa County, Arizona, which includes Phoenix, Arizona, and its Sheriff Joe Arpaio, have drawn attention from human rights groups for the use of chain gangs for both men and women.

Chain gang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With regards to the rest I know that you understand and accept what I am saying it is just that you want to save face...
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These are not the same "chain gangs" like they used to have. They are just prison work programs. Not nearly as harsh.

As to your last paragraph, it's hilarious and dumb at the same time.
 
ChrisL said:
These are not the same "chain gangs" like they used to have. They are just prison work programs. Not nearly as harsh.
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Who gives a **** if they are "chain gangs" or work programs!? :lol: The POINT is that they are out of the prison and a continuing part of society.

As to your last paragraph, it's hilarious and dumb at the same time.
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Then I don't understand. What is your disconnect then because I see that you are quickly giving up any hope to prove your point.
 
LWNJ position: Death to babies, but not to murderers.
 
ChrisL said:
As much as I would like to see some of those people die, I think that LWOP is a perfectly fine alternative.
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The problem with LWOP is that they can continue to commit crimes.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Of course it is a part of society. Members of society work there. Come and go. Etc. To think otherwise is literally idiotic. They are separate from most of society but they are still a part of it no matter how small a part of it. There is not some magical veil or alternate reality that separates the two. :lol:
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No, those employees 'leave' society and enter into a closed community.
 
Muhammed said:
The problem with LWOP is that they can continue to commit crimes.
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And do. Violence in prison is pervasive and unless you lock these people up in their own little cells, never to see another living person, it will continue to do so. Of course, you get all the whiny prisoner-rights idiots who want these people to have cable TV and normal social lives and all that. Sorry, they lost those things when they acted outside of society's boundaries.
 
Lursa said:
No, those employees 'leave' society and enter into a closed community.
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Even if I accepted that the point still stands that prisoners can still have an affect on society by hurting or harming an individual that works there since that individual has to go back into society, affecting family, friends, the medical field, the criminal court system, etc. Prisons and prisoners are not completely removed from society hence they are a part of society. FACT.
 
ChrisL said:
As much as I would like to see some of those people die, I think that LWOP is a perfectly fine alternative. There are numerous reasons why too, such as costs, the risk of killing innocent people, how it's arbitrarily applied from state to state. There have also been racial disparities found, evidence tampering, prosecutorial misconduct and outright lying among other things that have happened.
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High costs can be adjusted. But I do agree with the risk of killing innocent people. As I said earlier in this thread, that is the greatest argument against the dp.
 
Alyssa said:
High costs can be adjusted. But I do agree with the risk of killing innocent people. As I said earlier in this thread, that is the greatest argument against the dp.
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But the cost has nothing whatsoever to do with the DP, it has to do with allowing tons and tons of legal appeals at taxpayer expense that have nothing whatsoever to do with the guilt of the criminal. They appeal because they don't want to die, not because they didn't do it.
 
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