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Death Penalty, for or against

Do you support the death penalty?

  • Total voters
    134
NoC_T said:
And easily undermined. Eco won't be achieving what has never been a possibility in all of human history.
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We hold these truths to be self-evident...
 
NoC_T said:
The desire to live isn't the issue. The issue remains whether or not, having consciously dismissed this desire to live, your own desire may be similarly dismissed.
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Bullcrap. Two wrongs don't make a right. Didn't you learn that when you were a kid?

The 'right' to life is a function of morality, being something other than desire alone. Were it merely a question of desire, the same 'right' you mistake as being a logical premise, would be void the instant the desire changed.
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The desire being universal (rare exceptions given) is what implores us to describe it as a right. Because the desire is innate and universal, it is a natural right.
 
NoC_T said:
And easily undermined. Eco won't be achieving what has never been a possibility in all of human history.
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Word to the Strip G...
 
ecofarm said:
Bullcrap. Two wrongs don't make a right. Didn't you learn that when you were a kid?
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It can if the correct outcome occurs... kinda common sense.
 
ecofarm said:
We hold these truths to be self-evident...
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Who's we? Oh, truth? Verily, the surest barometer. Because every time and culture has been identical, hasn't it? There's no difference between science and philosophy?

ecofarm said:
Bullcrap. Two wrongs don't make a right. Didn't you learn that when you were a kid?

The desire being universal (rare exceptions given) is what implores us to describe it as a right. Because the desire is innate and universal, it is a natural right.
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A natural 'desire' rather, which includes the desire of others to deny. There's nothing whatever empirical here. Desire has to be about the flimsiest of motives. Certainly a far cry from any logical quality you impute to it.

Did you honestly believe you were making history in this thread? That you'd stumbled on some hitherto undiscovered element of reason?
 
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there ya go.
Cyrylek said:
Keep them locked up. Forever. Unless and until some evidence pops up that they were wrongfully accused.

Look, my absolute opposition to death penalty is not any kind of kindness overflow, or any residual Catholic sentiment. Hell, if had to choose between DP and life in prison, shoot me right now.

This is not about them, really. This is about us.
Being a gentlewoman from Ohio, you may not quite understand it (emotionally), but I was born and raised in places much less forgiving. If I would exact my - perfectly justified, by the standards of the last two thousands years - revenge on everyone who certainly deserves it ....well--- Volga, Don, Dnieper and a number of smaller rivers in the Eastern Europe would turn red for a few weeks....

No.

This is the only possible answer: NO.

Don't get me wrong: I am a lifetime member of the NRA, all-out American patriot, tea-party-ing right-wing libertarian, etc, etc .

But on this one, there can be no compromise: Countries worth defending do not execute helpless prisoners. I believe in America that is worth defending.
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NoC_T said:
Who's we? Oh, truth? Verily, the surest barometer. Because every time and culture has been identical, hasn't it? There's no difference between science and philosophy?


A natural 'desire' rather, which includes the desire of others to deny. There's nothing whatever empirical here. Desire has to be about the flimsiest of motives. Certainly a far cry from any logical quality you impute to it.

Did you honestly believe you were making history in this thread? That you'd stumbled on some hitherto undiscovered element of reason?
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Your failure to understand morality, social constructs and terminology is not my problem. There is nothing unprecedented in my understanding, it is the same possessed by the founders.

Maybe someday you'll get it, but I don't really care.

Have a good day.
 
ecofarm said:
Your failure to understand morality, social constructs and terminology is not my problem. There is nothing unprecedented in my understanding, it is the same possessed by the founders.

Maybe someday you'll get it, but I don't really care.

Have a good day.
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lulz

Yeah, take it easy, brah.
 
polgara said:
California recently released thousands of prisoners due to budget problems. I hope none of them were supposed to be in for life with no parole! *shudders*
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I don't think they would let out the type of prisoner that would be prone to commit violent acts. More like those who were jailed for drug offences and the like. If you get the opportunity this week, go to the PBS website and check out the latest Frontline. It's about the American prison system, focussing specifically in Kentucky. I have recorded it but have not watched yet. I get the impression that it's going to be eye-opening.
 
Middleground said:
I don't think they would let out the type of prisoner that would be prone to commit violent acts. More like those who were jailed for drug offences and the like. If you get the opportunity this week, go to the PBS website and check out the latest Frontline. It's about the American prison system, focussing specifically in Kentucky. I have recorded it but have not watched yet. I get the impression that it's going to be eye-opening.
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I will! Thanks. All sorts of things seem to be happening in rapid succession all over the globe - perhaps some long overdo corrections are going to take place now in a number of areas. :shock:
 
grip said:
Yes, but society advances and evolves over time, having less need for such severe penalties. That's why so many countries don't have the death sentence anymore. Back when the sentencing was harsher, it was often due to the lack of education, civility and how great an impact stealing had on an impoverished society in comparison to today's cultures.

Look at how severe the Sharia Laws are and how the Western civilizations find them too harsh and demeaning. Those kind of extremes don't equate to justice but rather the lack of it.

I'm not trying to alter your opinion, but rather explaining my own, which I didn't formulate suddenly or without much consideration. I'm for justice and the determent of criminal behavior, though I don't believe most potential criminals consider the consequences of their actions, because they're mentally/emotionally imbalanced, desperate, anti-social, ignorant, mean, mistreated, etc.
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Good morning Grip, I enjoyed sharing with you on this topic. It made me use a couple of extra neurons. Have a good one.
 
ecofarm said:
Yes, well, I don't forfeit my humanity card. I believe killing a helpless harmless captive is inhuman. It sets a bad example and thereby promotes murder through the justification of rationalization.
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And locking someone permanently in a cage is humane?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Over this issue, eco turns into a frenzied schoolgirl running around screaming "BLOOD LUST!" like King Leonidas because a kid shoved a frog in her direction
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LOL

Yeah, I kind of got the impression that this conversations wasn't going to be reasonable, rational, or mature in any way.
 
ChrisL said:
Guess you haven't heard about this . . .

Botched lethal injection a new front in battle over U.S. executions - CNN.com

Would you do it? Be the one to inject them with drugs that will kill them I mean?
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Greetings, ChrisL. :2wave:

I can't think that the ones appointed to do that job actually enjoy it. Will they be judged by karma as murderers? The swordsman with an ax that had to perform beheadings in the past seem more cruel in retrospect than what we do today, so perhaps we are becoming more humane and "civilized" as time passes. Was Dr. Kevorkian wrong to assist those who begged for his help in leaving their pain behind by choosing death...could he be called a murderer? I believe we are fortunate because we are ruled by laws that are equally fair for all, and there should be punishment for breaking those laws, but only God will judge if we are doing the right thing.

To answer your question - could I do it? I don't think so, but I hope I never have that decision to make. On the other hand, using a hypothetical example, if one you love begs you to end their life, as many parents and spouses did in Japan when we used the atomic bomb and they were so horribly burned, would you feel guilt if you did? With the world becoming more dangerous, the possibility of a chemical or biological terrorist attack is certainly possible, according to experts. Could you do it under those circumstances without feeling like a murderer? Just something to think about.
 
vesper said:
Good morning Grip, I enjoyed sharing with you on this topic. It made me use a couple of extra neurons. Have a good one.
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Yes, healthy with mutual respect for each others opinion and no demeaning personal insinuations. Good debate. :)
 
Bodhisattva said:
Sorry bub... wrong. You don't see me shouting or getting angry with people here. You see me talking about consequences. It is you insulting others with cries of vengeance and eco shouting blood lust at others that are emotional. When my kid does something wrong they get a consequence. The DP is just a natural extension of the consequence system. Sorry that your emotions are blinding you from this simplicity... *shrugs*
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Sorry....call it whatever you want, but the bottom line, what you are advocating is classic vengence. Thats just the reality.
 
ecofarm said:
Justice is not served by killing helpless harmless captives.
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:2funny: silly nonsense.


ecofarm said:
Justice is served when society rises above and validates its existence.
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If all you're going to do is quote bumper stickers, please consider an exit plan.


Cyrylek said:
Lock him up, so that he cannot hurt anyone else. And - do not offer him the easy way out. He did what he did - let him live with it, however cruel that may be. We are not like him. We do not kill people who are not attacking us. Let him know it.
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Let him know it? He doesn't give a ****. Society owes him that same consideration.

ChrisL said:
Killing is killing. The end result is the same no matter who is doing the killing.
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Bull excrement. It's not the same. And it doesn't mean a single turd to me whether or not people comprehend that.




ChrisL said:
No, evil spreads from rotten vengeful brains, and thankfully it's not up to someone like you to decide what is and is not a priority.
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Too bad it's not. Society would be much safer if I was in charge. Either way, it begins with a senseless crime, not vengeance..
 
disneydude said:
Sorry....call it whatever you want, but the bottom line, what you are advocating is classic vengence. Thats just the reality.
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No, it serves as a just punishment and deterrent. And in your reasoning, why is the DP vengeance but a lifetime in jail not vengeance? The DP is a known consequence for certain crimes and serves as a punishment, deterrent and removal of someone from this life who is deemed unfit to live here due to their actions for which a life of confinement is not enough. Sometimes it may be in the best interest for the safety of others in the case of serial killers that would kill again if they ever escaped or came into contact with another person (even in prison).
 
Alyssa said:
If all you're going to do is quote bumper stickers, please consider an exit plan.
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I'm flattered that you think my off-hand remarks are bumper-sticker material. I am pretty good with words, aren't I?

:)
 
Bodhisattva said:
WRONG. There are other reasons to have the death penalty. Just because you can't fathom one does not mean it is about revenge.
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You say there are other reasons yet you fail to provide one.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Inconsistent. You said the DP is about revenge. How does one commit revenge upon thy self?
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They don't. But if they wish to take themselves out of this world then I have no problem with that.
 
Poiuy said:
For the botched execution they way to fix this is by executing them differently such as by beheading or hanging.
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Beheading: A 15th century punishment for the 15th century conservative mind. ;)
 
lizzie said:
What makes us better than them? We didn't kill without just cause. That is the difference.
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If the sentenced finds their action of killing another just and you find your killing of them just then there is really no difference between the two of you. The action you both committed was the same and both of you find your reasons for doing it just.
 
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