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Death Penalty, for or against

Do you support the death penalty?

  • Total voters
    134
Middleground said:
Me too, and yet I am opposed to the death penalty.



Me too, and yet I am opposed to the death penalty.



So what does that make YOU? How about a cold-blooded killer? What you want to do is no different than the cold-blooded killer. Think about it.



King Henry VIII, is that you?



To me, a society that kills it's own is savage. And it's not about being sympathetic at all. It's all about not being a society that itself commits cold-blooded murder.
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Perhaps a cold blooded killer, but the victim in this case, the one who murdered someone else or more would have been found guilty of cold blooded murder by a jury of his peers and sentenced by a judge. More important, the killing of this person would be legal with all proper procedures followed. Now compare that to what this murderer had did, would have killed/murdered someone or more just because he felt like it, no jury, no judge, just a rampage. There is no comparison or anything to think about. But if I were thinking about something, it would be the ones murdered by this guy, gal or whomever. Killed in cold blood as you put it. his victims did nothing to deserve killing, they just happened to be there. they were innocent and now they are innocently dead. The one put to death by judge, jury and executioner deserved it, he committed an act that warranted the death penalty, he was not innocent like the victims he had just killed. A very huge difference.

Henry the VIII, I do not think I was any king in my many past lives.

It is not cold blooded murder when the death penalty is enforced. It is a results of legally followed procedures for a crime deemed worthy of it. There is nothing cold blooded in executing a murderer, it is well thought out and well deserved. Especially today.
 
Perotista said:
Perhaps a cold blooded killer, but the victim in this case, the one who murdered someone else or more would have been found guilty of cold blooded murder by a jury of his peers and sentenced by a judge. More important, the killing of this person would be legal with all proper procedures followed. Now compare that to what this murderer had did, would have killed/murdered someone or more just because he felt like it, no jury, no judge, just a rampage. There is no comparison or anything to think about. But if I were thinking about something, it would be the ones murdered by this guy, gal or whomever. Killed in cold blood as you put it. his victims did nothing to deserve killing, they just happened to be there. they were innocent and now they are innocently dead. The one put to death by judge, jury and executioner deserved it, he committed an act that warranted the death penalty, he was not innocent like the victims he had just killed. A very huge difference.

Henry the VIII, I do not think I was any king in my many past lives.

It is not cold blooded murder when the death penalty is enforced. It is a results of legally followed procedures for a crime deemed worthy of it. There is nothing cold blooded in executing a murderer, it is well thought out and well deserved. Especially today.
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None of that matters when we are dealing with human beings. Prosecutors are human beings and so is everyone else who handles the evidence all the way down the line. There have been many instances of error, contamination of evidence and also willful prosecutorial misconduct, among other problems.

Not to mention, why would ANYONE want their government to have the power to take a citizen's life when we can lock them up?
 
SheWolf said:
The death penalty is in the news again in America because states are turning to new, untested drug concoctions to use for lethal injection, and sometimes the drugs being used in executions cause complications and prolonged dying. There was a case a few months ago out of Ohio, but the story coming out of Oklahoma seems the most controversial yet. It actually delayed another man's execution.

A link to the story is below...



So do you favor the death penalty?

Do you think the death penalty will last in America considering the declining availability of traditional lethal injection drugs?



Oklahoma’s horrible ‘botched execution’ shows again why the death penalty should be abolished
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I don't understand. We pay so much for such expensive, stupid, not always great methods. Bullets are cheap, and headshots are instantaneous.
 
Cyrylek said:
Keep them locked up. Forever. Unless and until some evidence pops up that they were wrongfully accused.

Look, my absolute opposition to death penalty is not any kind of kindness overflow, or any residual Catholic sentiment. Hell, if had to choose between DP and life in prison, shoot me right now.

This is not about them, really. This is about us.

Being a gentlewoman from Ohio, you may not quite understand it (emotionally), but I was born and raised in places much less forgiving. If I would exact my - perfectly justified, by the standards of the last two thousands years - revenge on everyone who certainly deserves it ....well--- Volga, Don, Dnieper and a number of smaller rivers in the Eastern Europe would turn red for a few weeks....

No.

This is the only possible answer: NO.

Don't get me wrong: I am a lifetime member of the NRA, all-out American patriot, tea-party-ing right-wing libertarian, etc, etc .

But on this one, there can be no compromise: Countries worth defending do not execute helpless prisoners. I believe in America that is worth defending.
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I agree 100 percent with you that they should be locked up - forever - if that was their sentence. My point was that the law was not being followed, then, if a group can decide that thousands of criminals should be released because the cost of lawful incarceration is so great that it harms the State budget. When money becomes more important than the law, what a lucky day for them, right? :thumbdown:
 
ecofarm said:
Yes, well, I don't forfeit my humanity card. I believe killing a helpless harmless captive is inhuman. It sets a bad example and thereby promotes murder through the justification of rationalization.
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Really, well you are entitled to your opinion but I have a question for you. Do you know why Clayton Lockett was put to death? I'll tell you why. Clayton Lockett, the helpless harmless captive, along with two other animals gang raped, shot, and buried alive 18 year old Stephanie Neiman. In my opinion Clayton Lockett should have been gang raped then hung by the neck till he was dead. I feel that his suffering was a good thing.
 
Middleground said:
Me too, and yet I am opposed to the death penalty.



Me too, and yet I am opposed to the death penalty.



So what does that make YOU? How about a cold-blooded killer? What you want to do is no different than the cold-blooded killer. Think about it.



King Henry VIII, is that you?



To me, a society that kills it's own is savage. And it's not about being sympathetic at all. It's all about not being a society that itself commits cold-blooded murder.
Click to expand...

A society that has no laws would be the savage society. We have laws, and those who break them should be punished, for the common good of the entire society. What else would you suggest be done? When States can release thousands of incarcerated prisoners, who have their day in court and been found guilty, but it becomes too costly for the State to continue to keep them in prison, why bother with having a legal system at all? Again I ask - what do you suggest be done instead?

Greetings, Middleground. :2wave:
 
SgtRock said:
Really, well you are entitled to your opinion but I have a question for you. Do you know why Clayton Lockett was put to death?
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Yes. And there are a million other examples of horrible torture and murder.

And none of them will strip me of my humanity, because I rise above. My intellect is not a victim of my emotions.

I am capable of logic and reason. I am capable of pity and mercy. And, God willing, I always will be.
 
disneydude said:
The only person who should decide whether a person lives or dies is God. Even a convicted killer should die in God's time, not the government's.
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God bless the death penalty. It works!
 
polgara said:
A society that has no laws would be the savage society. We have laws, and those who break them should be punished, for the common good of the entire society. What else would you suggest be done? When States can release thousands of incarcerated prisoners, who have their day in court and been found guilty, but it becomes too costly for the State to continue to keep them in prison, why bother with having a legal system at all? Again I ask - what do you suggest be done instead?

Greetings, Middleground. :2wave:
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Greetings, Polgara.

I suggest life imprisonment, no parole. Do you realize that it is cheaper to keep an inmate in prison for life vs. keeping one on death row?
 
ecofarm said:
Yes. And there are a million other examples of horrible torture and murder.

And none of them will strip me of my humanity, because I rise above. My intellect is not a victim of my emotions.

I am capable of logic and reason. I am capable of pity and mercy. And, God willing, I always will be.
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I'm sorry I hope I didn't offend you with my barbaric opinion on the this subject. You are clearly superior to me. How does it feel to be one of the elite?
 
SheWolf said:
The death penalty is in the news again in America because states are turning to new, untested drug concoctions to use for lethal injection, and sometimes the drugs being used in executions cause complications and prolonged dying. There was a case a few months ago out of Ohio, but the story coming out of Oklahoma seems the most controversial yet. It actually delayed another man's execution.

A link to the story is below...



So do you favor the death penalty?

Do you think the death penalty will last in America considering the declining availability of traditional lethal injection drugs?



Oklahoma’s horrible ‘botched execution’ shows again why the death penalty should be abolished
Click to expand...

If lethal injection cannot be perfected a firing squad can. It's cheap, it works, and it's more fun too.
 
SgtRock said:
I'm sorry I hope I didn't offend you with my barbaric opinion on the this subject. You are clearly superior to me. How does it feel to be one of the elite?
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One gets used to it.
 
I don't trust the government to get anything right. Give the State the right to execute citizens and they'll turn it into a State issue, and want to kill people for espionage and treason and other crap.
Here's a simple, nutshell reckoning - don't give the State that kind of power. Work around it.
 
Middleground said:
Greetings, Polgara.

I suggest life imprisonment, no parole. Do you realize that it is cheaper to keep an inmate in prison for life vs. keeping one on death row?
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:agree: I just don't understand how a State can undo what the legal system has decided is just punishment, by releasing prisoners who are supposed to be serving life sentences. :confused: Maybe those released did not fall into that category?
 
cpwill said:
I don't understand. We pay so much for such expensive, stupid, not always great methods. Bullets are cheap, and headshots are instantaneous.
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What don't you understand about human error? Why would you want to risk killing an innocent person when you don't have to?
 
disneydude said:
Society is comprised of many different views...the problem with Capital Punishment is that the government puts the decision of whether a person lives or dies in the hands of 12 people. Kind of a ridiculous proposition in my view.
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Is it any more ridiculous than an elected representative acting in the electorate's interests? You seem to be making an argument for direct democracy. If that's the case, you should say as much. If it's not, you should familiarise yourself with the concept of delegation. That an unelected body makes decisions is moot, given it's existence as part of a larger body so empowered. If that's undesirable, they can be removed.
 
disneydude said:
No it doesn't....it represents the views of 12 people. This might be ok when determining guilt or innocence in a criminal trial, it is a much different proposition when the government is deciding whether to kill someone.
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Not if they're elected, it's not.
 
disneydude said:
There are no legitimate reasons to have a death penalty. The only possible one is vengence....although I would argue that this is not a legitimate reason.
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If indeed legitimacy caters solely to your personal definitions.
 
"Some people deserved to be fried but I don't believe in giving the government the power to fry people"

a former US Attorney, now a highly respected federal district judge

the best comment on this topic I have ever heard.
 
polgara said:
:agree: I just don't understand how a State can undo what the legal system has decided is just punishment, by releasing prisoners who are supposed to be serving life sentences. :confused: Maybe those released did not fall into that category?
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I am not aware of any cases where someone is sentenced for life, no parole and yet get released on parole? Does it happen?
 
Middleground said:
I am not aware of any cases where someone is sentenced for life, no parole and yet get released on parole? Does it happen?
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Neither am I though Ohio only recently added that option. However, there are cases of people sentenced to LWOP killing other prisoners or guards.
 
Cyrylek said:
Actually, it is the other way around. The proponents of death penalty are driven by their emotions, "animal spirits".

Yes, it is natural to seek vengeance.
I mean, if were a father of one of the kids gunned down by Mr. Breivik on July 22, 2011 - well, the first thing I would do on the day he is released from prison (those super-"humane" Scandinavian laws...) is to sink as many rounds into his chest as I could, before cops bring me down.

But.

This is not how you build or sustain civilization. This is how you destroy it.

Do I know what "justice" is? How? Oh, sure, it says so-and-so in a sacred book - the Torah, if I am lucky; the Complete Works of Parteigenosse Lenin/Hitler/Mao - if I was born on the wrong side of the fence....

Screw that. I do not know what's "justice". Have I ever been to another person's brain? Felt what he or she feels? Knew what she or he knows? Suffered from exactly the same kind of madness?

Justice is impossible. Period. Unless you are the all-knowing God. Are you?
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What else should we refrain from in our lack of omniscience? Or does lack of godhood apply only in matters judicial? It seems to me that, given this approach, we ought to refrain from any course that doesn't begin and end purely with ourselves. That can't be your intention.
 
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