View Poll Results: Do you support the death penalty?

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  • Strongly support

    50 33.33%
  • Somewhat/leaning in support

    17 11.33%
  • Unsure

    4 2.67%
  • Somewhat/leaning agains

    16 10.67%
  • Strongly against

    63 42.00%
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Thread: Death Penalty, for or against

  1. #491
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    If state-sanctioned murder is not barbaric, what is? To put it in starker relief; can you honestly say that state-sanctioned murder is civilized?
    You're preaching to choir here mate; I'm totally against the death penalty. All I'm saying is that, to my mind, it matters what the state's motives are. If the state wishes to remove a bad element from society, and the only way it can do that (for whatever reason) is death, this is -- to me -- better than the state saying "don't kill or we'll kill ya."

  2. #492
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    You're preaching to choir here mate; I'm totally against the death penalty. All I'm saying is that, to my mind, it matters what the state's motives are. If the state wishes to remove a bad element from society, and the only way it can do that (for whatever reason) is death, this is -- to me -- better than the state saying "don't kill or we'll kill ya."
    That's basically exactly what the state is saying.

    There is no justification. These are people who are in custody, they are locked down, they have been removed from society. There is no justification for killing them. The burden of proof always needs to be on the side of killing, I don't neef to prove why someone shouldn't be killed, and that burden is very high.
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    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  3. #493
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    That's basically exactly what the state is saying.

    There is no justification. These are people who are in custody, they are locked down, they have been removed from society. There is no justification for killing them. The burden of proof always needs to be on the side of killing, I don't neef to prove why someone shouldn't be killed, and that burden is very high.
    Out of curiosity, do you believe the state's moral culpability in killing extends to non-citizens?

    The execution by a state of non-citizens would, to me, appear to relieve the state of its duty not to harm its own citizens. So, for example, the US supporting and condoning the execution of Saddam Hussein is OK in my book.

  4. #494
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    Out of curiosity, do you believe the state's moral culpability in killing extends to non-citizens?

    The execution by a state of non-citizens would, to me, appear to relieve the state of its duty not to harm its own citizens. So, for example, the US supporting and condoning the execution of Saddam Hussein is OK in my book.
    Nationalism is the religion of the state. The working class is international, as is the bourgeoisie. Nation-states primarily exist to reinforce the hegemony of the capitalist class. They must be demolished.

    I oppose capital punishment in all contexts. I oppose it because it is barbaric, and because it is, overwhelmingly a weapon of the state, therefore the capitalist class, against workers. This should not be interpreted as sympathy for the condemned. I despise Saddam Hussein ( who, incidentally, comitted his worst crimes with enthusiastic US support) just as I loathe Ted Bundy, or John Wayne Gacy. (Although, I find them fascinating from a clinical perspective.)
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  5. #495
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    "One in 25 criminal defendants who has been handed a death sentence in the United States has likely been erroneously convicted. That number—4.1% to be exact—comes from a new analysis of more than 3 decades of data on death sentences and death row exonerations across the United States.

    “This was a very carefully done and carefully considered approach,” says statistician Bruce Levin of Columbia University, who was not involved in the new study. “The analysis was quite sophisticated, and the authors were transparent about both their assumptions and methods.”

    ...To calculate a more accurate false conviction rate, Samuel Gross, a law professor at the University of Michigan Law School in Ann Arbor and a former criminal defense lawyer, decided to focus on one small subset of criminal cases: those that result in death sentences.

    “Every case where you have a death sentence is recorded in a national database,” Gross says. “And the rate at which errors are detected in death penalty cases is orders of magnitude higher than in other cases.” Defendants on death row have better access to attorneys, he notes, and more attention and resources are generally devoted to ensuring that their convictions are accurate........."

    More Than 4% of Death Row Inmates May Be Innocent | Science/AAAS | News

    Rate of false conviction of criminal defendants who are sentenced to death
    With that high of an error rate, and the fact that minorities and low income people are more likely to be given a more severe sentence or the death penalty, our justice system in the USA has not earned my trust enough to think that they should be allowed to make life or death decisions.

  6. #496
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Nope. Very much against it. Its inhumane, costs way too much money, and there are cases of the wrong man being put to death.

    Only time I can see to be in favor of them is convicted war criminals.


  7. #497
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Nope. Very much against it. Its inhumane, costs way too much money, and there are cases of the wrong man being put to death.

    Only time I can see to be in favor of them is convicted war criminals.
    What if it's a wrongly convicted war criminal?
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  8. #498
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    What if it's a wrongly convicted war criminal?
    I think it would be a lot harder to convict someone who was innocent of war crimes. This would all have to go through intentional bodies like happened at Nuremberg.


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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Nope. Very much against it. Its inhumane, costs way too much money, and there are cases of the wrong man being put to death.

    Only time I can see to be in favor of them is convicted war criminals.
    Did you happen to see the execution of Saddam Hussein? While there is no love lost from for him, I still found that execution to be absolutely disgusting, also the fact some of the prison guards apparently had stabbed him post-mortem? Barbaric!

    Think about this too, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and other such barbaric countries are who we keep company with when we employ the death penalty.

  10. #500
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Did you happen to see the execution of Saddam Hussein? While there is no love lost from for him, I still found that execution to be absolutely disgusting, also the fact some of the prison guards apparently had stabbed him post-mortem? Barbaric!

    Think about this too, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and other such barbaric countries are who we keep company with when we employ the death penalty.
    I did see it and i found it disturbing as well.


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